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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 08/29/2008 :  22:28:01  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The problem for Ray Comfort is that he's been lambasted over and over on his own blog for misrepresenting atheists and "evolutionists". Now he wants to know what the "official" views of us are?

I replied to that piece of self-serving, false-caring stupidity thusly:

We've been doing that all along, but that doesn't stop you from making up your own versions, berk.


"Atheists are people who pretend there's no "God""? Right!


So why are you pretending to care about what our views are?


Why do you make a distinction between "officially" believe and otherwise? Are you going to be saying that athiests pretend to have one point of view on these things (which would be our views as expressed here) and then the "real" views that atheists have would actually be your dishonest strawman versions of what atheists believe?


Yeah, I can't wait for the comments on this one.


>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  03:31:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Comfort is all but brain-dead, but, just for the hell of it, post him this article. There just might be -- I promise nothing -- a little illumination seeping slowly and with some trepidation into the dank and odiferous crevices of a few fundie minds. It has put something of a pinch in ICR's collective panties.

The part I found most ridiculous was the claim that, if Genesis 1 & 2 is discounted as the literal truth, then science must prove that it has a better theory for the beginning of life.

I piss napalm upon that straw man! They know perfectly well that research into abiogenesis is far from complete, and science doesn't need to "prove" anything to apologetics in any event.

Ray might enjoy the read and it'll give something to do between bouts of lunacy.
I have a new book coming out soon. There will be a chapter on atheism. Tell me, what do atheists (officially) believe about:

God, the Bible, Heaven & Hell, Sin, Salvation (from death and Hell), and Jesus.
"Officially?" I didn't know we had an "official" set of guide-lines. But no matter, to reject the one is to reject the whole, isn't it? Couldn't he have figured this out for himself?

I have a problem the "Sin" part, though. There, we are getting into moral, social behavior and that can vary quite a bit from one society to another. "Sin" could cover a lot of ground, from rape ( pretty much acceptable in parts of the OT) to spitting on the First Four of the Big Ten. "Sin" covers far too much territory to answer definitivly.

Give him my regards, won't you?






"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  05:24:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm happy with what I saw from at least a few of the replies I skimmed. There is a problem with Comfort's question:
Tell me, what do atheists (officially) believe about:

God, the Bible, Heaven & Hell, Sin, Salvation (from death and Hell), and Jesus.
I've highlighted the problem. There is no such thing as an "official" atheist position on any of this.

Sure, we can all agree in the definition of atheism, and from that, we can answer questions about "hell" or "salvation", but that's not what I'm interested in. What's rather telling is that Comfort-- and people like him-- really think that there is an "official" atheist anything. Like we all go to ritualistic meetings, and all read from the same special book, and have designated atheist leaders, and so on.

Superficially, one might try to argue that this is the case. Like, The Blind Watchmaker is our holy book, and we follow the "teachings" of Darwin or Sagan or whomever.

But it strains credulity to really think that:

James Dobson : Christians

as

Richard Dawkins : Atheists
Yes people like Comfort think that this is the case.

I wonder why he is asking. On the one hand, it may be that he wants to make the most compelling case so as to convert us all to his brand of Christianity. But-- more cynically-- I wonder if he is trying to find that "official" stance that he can twist out of context and use to attack atheism not to convert, but rather to shore up the fundamentalist base who buys his books...
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  07:40:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is my comment. I doubt that it will be posted.

Ray,

The only thing that atheists “officially” believe is that a banana must be held in the left hand while being peeled with the right. Any atheist not peeling a banana correctly cannot “officially” call himself an atheist.

I hope that clears things up for you.


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  09:49:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Here is my comment. I doubt that it will be posted.

Ray,

The only thing that atheists “officially” believe is that a banana must be held in the left hand while being peeled with the right. Any atheist not peeling a banana correctly cannot “officially” call himself an atheist.

I hope that clears things up for you.










"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  10:21:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They actually ran my comments, though mine were hardly different from what most of the others said:
Ray,

The problem is that you are assuming that there is an "official" atheist position to begin with. There is nothing "official" about atheism. There is no "official" atheist book or website that spells out in clear language what "we" believe. Indeed, it is impossible to talk about what "we" believe-- beyond the most basic dictionary definition-- since each person can only speak for her- or himself.

An example is your Jesus question. Beyond the obvious-- than an atheist isn't going to buy the notion that Jesus was divine-- you'll find a whole range of opinions. (E.g. he never existed, or he was just a wise mortal, or he was a foolish mortal, and so on...) And no answer will be "official" in any sense of the word.

Do please keep this in mind when you talk about atheists and atheism. There is a tendency to create two contrasting opposites. On one side, Christians, who have their rituals and holy scriptures and designated leaders, etc. So logically, you want the opposition to similarly have their rituals and scriptures and designated leaders.

Unfortunately for you, the reality is that atheism has none of those things.
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Siberia
SFN Addict

Brazil
2322 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  10:22:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Siberia's Homepage  Send Siberia an AOL message  Send Siberia a Yahoo! Message Send Siberia a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Replied there.
I, horror of horrors, tried to give him a honest answer of my atheist POV. Let's see if it makes through the fire.

"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa

"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  10:59:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Alas, Ray did not approve my comment. Perhaps he is a bit sensitive on the subject of bananas.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  12:46:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, condescending and bigoted. Way to go, Ray.

G.E. I would like to be able to do that, because I know that there are some of you who are reasonable and even polite (Kaitlyn, for example, is so nice that she has me doubting that she's an atheist). However, the analogy is, "How about letting the sewer flow into your house Ray, and if there's a mess, you can simply clean up afterwards." I would rather stop the dirt at the source. Thanks though for your suggestion.

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  12:55:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Alas, Ray did not approve my comment. Perhaps he is a bit sensitive on the subject of bananas.
Considering that he is bananas, that would only be natural.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/30/2008 :  23:03:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My comment,
Ray, you are a complete fucking retard. Please go eat a bottle of pills ASAP.

... did not get approved.

Go figure.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 08/31/2008 :  08:40:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, for another example of Ray's prick-headedness, check this out.

He even makes a post about it.



Nice, huh?


>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
Edited by - the_ignored on 08/31/2008 08:41:21
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2008 :  12:40:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil


The only thing that atheists “officially” believe is that a banana must be held in the left hand while being peeled with the right. Any atheist not peeling a banana correctly cannot “officially” call himself an atheist.
I hope that clears things up for you.



But; what about us; left handed people?
Why can't we enjoy a tasty banana from time to time?




God gave mankind life, and he can take it away any which way He desires. He is not answerable to man! The mistake you make is that you THINK you can judge the Supreme Being who created everything! Wrong Answer.


Some of these guys are scary genocide apologetics which would murder without remorse as soon as religion give them an excuse to.

And then they pretend that atheists have no morality!

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 09/01/2008 :  17:04:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is how stupid and childish Ray is becoming.


>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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