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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
 Posted - 09/01/2008 : 18:07:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
This is just irresponsible. He says in the article he has no proof. But just as with most media types concrete proof is not needed for conviction.
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I'd say that he make a good case of it.
Especially considering the girl just announced she was pregnant... (out of wedlock).
I think that Palin just wanted to avoid the 'scandal'. But at least they did not push the hypocrisy to the point of discretely performing one of these abortion she is so opposed to). |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2008 : 18:11:38 [Permalink]
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Well, after reading filthy's link to the democratic underground, I'd say there is plenty on Palin that can be used if anyone chooses to use it.
Hello media? Media? Hello?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2008 : 18:32:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Originally posted by Robb
This is just irresponsible. He says in the article he has no proof. But just as with most media types concrete proof is not needed for conviction.
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I'd say that he make a good case of it.
Especially considering the girl just announced she was pregnant... (out of wedlock). |
Nah, it's bad. Girl being five months pregnant means the girl would have been unlikely to have given birth last April (barely five months ago).
I mean, there's an obvious failure of "family values," but to think she'd go get nookie the day after getting out of the hospital is a bit much. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2008 : 21:43:46 [Permalink]
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I mean, there's an obvious failure of "family values," but to think she'd go get nookie the day after getting out of the hospital is a bit much. |
I guess. But no potential for an election making scandal there.
Once again; Republicans fail to come through for me :). |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2008 : 22:09:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
I mean, there's an obvious failure of "family values," but to think she'd go get nookie the day after getting out of the hospital is a bit much. |
I guess. But no potential for an election making scandal there.
Once again; Republicans fail to come through for me :).
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Well, as Josh and the gang have talked about over at TPM-- this isn't about Palin. It's about McCain. Instead, "the real issue here is what this slapdash decision says about his judgment." |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2008 : 22:36:25 [Permalink]
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[Question] 11. Are you offended by the phrase "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?
[Sarah Palin]: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I'll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.
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That is fairly unsuprising.
Republicans have obviously adopted the same historical revisionism tactics used by fundies.
It SHOULD be a shock that a VP candidate from a major political party is this stupid, but somehow it just isn't.
I mean, I knew that Francic Bellamy wrote the pledge, and that he was a hardcore socialist, but I have had this argument with fundies in the past.
Robb said:
| This is just irresponsible. He says in the article he has no proof. But just as with most media types concrete proof is not needed for conviction. |
I almost agree with you Robb. But there is enough circumstantial detail here to warrant further looking.
I mean, if we can impeach a president for lying about sex, shouldn't we prevent somebody becomming vp who lies about sex?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2008 : 03:17:13 [Permalink]
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At last, we learn the why of it!
Seems that Palin might be a pretty good choice for the Reublicans after all.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 05:04:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Robb said:
| This is just irresponsible. He says in the article he has no proof. But just as with most media types concrete proof is not needed for conviction. |
I almost agree with you Robb. But there is enough circumstantial detail here to warrant further looking.
I mean, if we can impeach a president for lying about sex, shouldn't we prevent somebody becomming vp who lies about sex?
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You don't get it. It was not that Clinton lied about sex but that he lied under oath period. She has not done that as far as we know. Obama has shown integrity on this issue with Sarah Palin. I don't think I have ever seen a VP candidate attacked so much as she has this weekend. Not by the Obama campaign but by the media and blogger types. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 05:33:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Dude
Robb said:
| This is just irresponsible. He says in the article he has no proof. But just as with most media types concrete proof is not needed for conviction. |
I almost agree with you Robb. But there is enough circumstantial detail here to warrant further looking.
I mean, if we can impeach a president for lying about sex, shouldn't we prevent somebody becomming vp who lies about sex?
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You don't get it. It was not that Clinton lied about sex but that he lied under oath period. She has not done that as far as we know. Obama has shown integrity on this issue with Sarah Palin. I don't think I have ever seen a VP candidate attacked so much as she has this weekend. Not by the Obama campaign but by the media and blogger types.
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I agree, at least to a point. With Clinton, the question should have never come up, and as for Palin, never has there been such an unqualified choice for a candidate, and I include the much (and a little unfairly) maligned Quayle.
And Robb, you know in your heart of hearts that, rhetoric and hyperbole, and sanctimonous hand-wringing aside, it certainly was about sex. It's always about sex -- it was then and it is now. Is this not so?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 06:58:01 [Permalink]
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Robb said: | You don't get it. It was not that Clinton lied about sex but that he lied under oath period. |
Spare me your sanctimonious bullshit Robb.
Impeachment is for serious matters, like intentionally circumventing the law that describes how you are supposed to keep the Congress informed of your intel gathering activities, so you could continue to break laws with regard to domestic spying.
Impeachment is NOT for busting a guy lying about blowjobs he received, even if he was under oath!
I watched Clinton's impeachment, and it was the event that led me to really dislike republicans. Before that week I was generally disinterested in politics, and mostly didn't give a shit. Seeing all these dumb fucking rubes in congress going on and on about what a terrible crime it was to lie about getting a blowjob.... and how outraged they were, offended me pretty deeply. These are the people we pick to keep the country running, and here they were burning us down with partisan bullshit.
Robb, look at it like this. If you were under investigation for realestate fraud and some lawyer was asking you (under oath) questions about your sex life... and you lied, what do you think would happen if you were caught in the lie? The judge, at worst, would fine you. More likely they would issue you a warning.
So get the fuck down off your little high-horse. Clinton lied under oath. Yes. But he lied about a trivial matter that should never have been part of a realestate fraud investigation.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 07:58:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Robb said: | You don't get it. It was not that Clinton lied about sex but that he lied under oath period. |
Spare me your sanctimonious bullshit Robb.
Impeachment is for serious matters, like intentionally circumventing the law that describes how you are supposed to keep the Congress informed of your intel gathering activities, so you could continue to break laws with regard to domestic spying.
Impeachment is NOT for busting a guy lying about blowjobs he received, even if he was under oath! |
Not serious? He lied under oath for the intent of obstructing justice and denying another American their right to a fair and speedy trial.
So get the fuck down off your little high-horse. Clinton lied under oath. Yes. But he lied about a trivial matter that should never have been part of a realestate fraud investigation.
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It was part of this lawsuit by a citizen. http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/95-1853.ZS.html |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 08:48:47 [Permalink]
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As independent counsel, Kenneth Starr was not going to leave empty handed after all of his investigations turned up nothing. It was going home time or jump on Clinton after a tip from Linda Tripp that Clinton was fooling around with one of her friends (told to Tripp in confidence). So Starr switched gears and went after Clinton for that. Clinton lied about a blowjob. Darn.
High crimes and misdemeanors? Like outing a CIA operative or funding a war by selling arms to known enemies against the will of congress? Nope. Lying about a blowjob.
It wasn't enough for the Republicans, who controlled both houses as I recall, to just let it go because they didn't want to come up empty handed after spending so much money and time going after and failing to get Clinton on more serious charges. Clinton was probably the most investigated president in history, and the best they could do was to push forward an impeachment proceeding based on lying about a blowjob.
And really, the Republicans wound up looking like such fools and assholes that even today it makes me laugh. Oh, and Clinton was acquitted. A few years ago, Kenneth Starr lamented the fact that he took part in that farce. Clinton left office with a 65% approval rating, which pretty much shows how much the public cared about the stupidity of the hearings.
The best part was that Larry Flynt managed to take down some prominent republicans who supported the impeachment (on high moral grounds) and then had to admit to affairs of their own. One of those Republicans called Flynt a bottom feeder. Flynt's response was "you're right, but look what I found there."
We get all this family value bullshit from the Republicans, but that is all it is. Bullshit. It's so tiresome...
If the Republicans are in God's party, how come they always come off as looking like such assholes? Surly God could make his favored party look better than that. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 10:10:55 [Permalink]
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It seems that McCain initial choice was either Joe Lieberman or Tom Ridge.
Both are logical choice, very experimented folks.
Lieberman would have allowed McCain to renew his 'maverick' image and would have gathered to the more moderates. Plus,the guy was Al Gore's running mate! That would have been a big kick in the Democrats' nuts!
From what I gathered, Ridge is considered a bit weak in foreign policies, but McCain already appears strong enough there. The guy was part of Bush's government, but he left long enough ago that it should not be too much of a problem.
And he already serves as an aid for McCain too. I suspect he was ol' Johnny's first choice.
Both were a much more logical choice than Palin.
However; they both are pro-choice (and Lieberman has campaigned quite a bit in favour of Gays' rights) so it was a no-no for the religious right that was already shaky in its support for McCain.
This decision was very political and total pandering.
I suspect that it was also very rushed, McCain felt like he needed to make an announcement at the convention and, as the deadline drew closer, had to back off precipitately from his position. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2008 : 10:57:46 [Permalink]
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But let it not be said that Palin is entirely lacking in national security experience. After all, anyone who has even the most tenous grasp of world geography knows that Alaska is all but within spitting distance of Russia! When a Fox News morning host, Steve Doocy, testified to Sarah Palin's national security experience on Friday by saying that her state, Alaska, was so close to Russia, it drew hoots across the media and blogosphere (and even, no doubt, from a few Fox viewers).
This morning, on ABC in an interview with George Stephanopoulos, Cindy McCain endorsed this very view.
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How can it be denied? The woman is obviously tempered in the fires of the tag-end of the Cold War, the enemy of that conflict being nearly upon her doorstep!
So let us hear no more of this "national security" booshwah. Her credentials in that area are impecable.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2008 : 11:16:02 [Permalink]
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Yeah; Cindy McCain is not very bright. But then, why ask her about the issue?
I guess, the NASA should hire Tibetan monks as personal. After all, these guys live closer from space than anybody! |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
| Edited by - Simon on 09/02/2008 11:16:53 |
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Oh ye gods!
