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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 09/06/2008 : 09:28:01
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http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/project-earth/project-earth.html
bng, you had asked me previously about tethered wind turbines... here is some new info.
Latest episode of Discovery Project Earth (show about various geoengineering concepts) has a working prototype of a tethered wind turbine. The scaled down model is operational at 300feet, but is the full scale model would operate at 1000feet. Well below the 15k feet of other tethered wind turbine ideas.
This is the helium baloon turbine idea, and it works. With some continued refinement and scaling up... these could provide a lot of electricity.
Cool stuff!
Oh yeah.... the full episodes are available to watch online. This is a neat little tv show despite the scripted narrator drama.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2008 : 10:02:17 [Permalink]
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Lots of bugs to be worked out though. But then, were not talking about any major money being put into the project yet.
There was also an episode on increasing phytoplankton in desert areas of the ocean by pumping cold water, rich in nutrients, up from the bottom to create a hospitable environment for the plankton to thrive. The idea is that the phytoplankton will absorb CO2 as all plants do and then drop to the bottom as they do in areas where they regularly thrive. The effect would be to get rid of huge amounts of the gas. I suppose this would also create new habitats for other sea life further up on the food chain.
My concern is that messing with ecosystems is very tricky business. The Oceans taken as a whole are extremely complex systems subject to the whims of "chaos" because there is no way to factor in every possible bit of data that could effect the outcome.
Anyhow, I'm sure you can find the episode using Dude's link.
And yeah, the Discovery Channel scientists seemed to be there to produce some drama... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Zeked
Skeptic Friend
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2008 : 10:48:07 [Permalink]
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Here is the company that has sprung the design from that episode.
http://www.magenn.com/
Cool that they got it to function without a rigid central axle. I didn't think it would work.
The US Border patrol uses unmanned blimps, and one could probably gather much information about the logistics of maintaining a blimp from their program. I think what Magenn has is much lower maintenance, still good info from USBP.
I'm tempted to go take some pictures of the massive wind turbine farms just 30 miles East of here. I know it is a hot area of investment, but it is still not a viable technology without the infusion of substantial subsidies. The electric bill here only increases and the aged grid that feeds this area craps out on a dialy basis. No need to turn off the computer, it will be turned off for you. Thanks you Texas electric.
The Discovery show made it clear that to have the ~15 million blimp wind generators needed to visibly effect climate warming in the myopic CO2 computer models - this exceeded the amount of worldwide helium production that would be required to fly the blimps.
The tether system knocked my socks off. That is awesome. Like to see them add a strand of fiber optic and put a small WiFi/WiMax payload onboard. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2008 : 10:57:01 [Permalink]
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Zeked:
The Discovery show made it clear that to have the ~15 million blimp wind generators needed to visibly effect climate warming in the myopic CO2 computer models - this exceeded the amount of worldwide helium production that would be required to fly the blimps. |
Right, so a way needs to be found to reduce CO2 levels so that not as many blimps, or whatever, would be needed. That's where the phytoplankton idea comes into the picture.
A multi pronged approach is probably the most realistic way to go, whatever those approaches might turn out to be. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2008 : 11:50:15 [Permalink]
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With any large scale project there will be unintended consequences.
The tethered wind turbine featured looks to have great potential though. Giant helium balloons holding up wind turbines is also, imo, very cool.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2008 : 20:03:57 [Permalink]
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I'm actually liking kites, more. For one thing, all of the mechanical-to-electrical conversion equipment stays on the ground, making maintenance cheap and easy.
For another, in an emergency so dire that you need to cut the tether, you're out at most a couple hundred bucks, instead of tens or hundreds of thousands.
And no helium needed. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2008 : 20:45:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
I'm actually liking kites, more. For one thing, all of the mechanical-to-electrical conversion equipment stays on the ground, making maintenance cheap and easy.
For another, in an emergency so dire that you need to cut the tether, you're out at most a couple hundred bucks, instead of tens or hundreds of thousands.
And no helium needed.
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How does a kite turn a generator?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2008 : 21:09:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
How does a kite turn a generator? |
The simplest way is to mount one end of a spring on the ground, and tie the kite to the other end. Places with "constant" wind don't really have constant wind speeds, so you tension the spring for the average wind speed, and you convert the up-and-down motion of the kite (as the wind speed increases and decreases naturally, sometimes second-by-second) into rotary motion for a generator.
A more sophisticated version uses a wind-inflating airfoil kite. You let the wind carry the kite higher and higher, using the reel motion itself to turn a generator, and when the tether is exhausted you partially collapse the kite so that it takes less energy to reel it back down than was generated on the way up. As soon as it gets near the minimum operational altitude, you re-engage the generator clutch, allow the kite to completely inflate again and turn off the winding mechanism (which could be little more than a flywheel and a clutch, itself).
I've seen YouTube videos of prototypes of both. Too busy to go find 'em right now.
You'd really want to mount either solution on a free-spinning turntable, so they would self-align with the wind for optimal efficiency. But that only adds an oil can to the cost of maintenance. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Tethered wind turbine
