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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
 Posted - 09/16/2008 : 11:37:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Of course, we humans don't even have a good definition for intelligence, so we'll be stuck measuring "better" by how much data an AI can process in a given time, or something like that.
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By the time we universally recognize that AI has surpassed us it will probably be WAY past us. I believe Kurzweils plan is to "merge" with AI. His hope is that everyone will have a choice. Merge with AI and be "in the know", or remain wholly biological and be taken care of like pets. Not that most of those being taken care of will realize there new place in the order of things.
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I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2008 : 11:52:35 [Permalink]
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If we get a Turing level AI, I think we'll have to do a lot of thinking about what intelligence is. About what a person is for that matter.
Honestly, I'm ok with the whole cyborg thing. If we have that level of tech and understanding to "merge" with an AI, we should be able to either maintain our biological bodies for a long period of time, or be able to move into a new one. Obviously that is extreme speculation at this point. But interesting none the less.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Zeked
Skeptic Friend
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2008 : 12:01:50 [Permalink]
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| I fail to see how a GUI, Google, or CAD fits into this definition. |
Which I had already addressed...
"While there can be argument over an adaptive heuristic database query system being true AI, the resulting exclusion of so many texts on the subject should be reason enough one should make an allowance of the terms use."
Google uses a latent semantic indexing form of programming, along with many others. Many software programmers now use a heuristic type of programming that is refered to as AI. These are not human level AI, nor are they typically intended to be. Regurgitation, simple mimicry and basic branch prediction.
| It talks about intelligence (from as far as I can tell, in the human sense) rather than tasks, and that is what is currently at hand. |
Human level AI.
| we don't know how to do it, we don't know if we can do it, and because of this, to suggest that it is just a matter of time is a bit absurd |
The how to, is an educated guess. By using the best understanding of biological brain models, one can try to assemble an artificial model to match.
We are closer to simulating the workings of the brain by reverse engineering the biological systems and applying them in hardware and software. There are novel and previously unknown solutions and creations that have already been derived from these neural simulators.
Processes of biological diffusion, conditional inhibitors and stimulators are applied to the artificial neural constructs - to not only better simulate the biological brain, but to use the artificial models for predictive analysis of the biological models.
The predictive abilities of artificial neural systems to find and verify solutions in the biological neural models is significant, and clearly allows for scaling timeline forecasts to achieve human level AI.
We can produce an artificial brain, this is clear. The question is, what is required before it becomes a mind? |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2008 : 12:16:09 [Permalink]
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Zeked said:
| We can produce an artificial brain, this is clear. The question is, what is required before it becomes a mind? |
Which is precisely why, imo, the first "better" than human intelligence will be an enhanced human mind.
The end results may well be the same as a fully synthetic AI though. Who knows?
At this point it remains just a fun thought excercise.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2008 : 14:52:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
Again, there is this gap where we don't know how to do it, we don't know if we can do it, and because of this, to suggest that it is just a matter of time is a bit absurd. |
This is where emulating a human brain, by real-time emulation of a massive amount of single interconnected neurons, comes into the picture. And this is what we predicted (in an earlier SFN-thread) would be possible around 2025-2030. Human intelligence by brute computational emulation of a biological equivalent.
However, I seriously doubt it would require that much power. Our estimation was based on a full scale real time emulation of neuron. There should be ways to make a computer model that only emulate the neuron's function, as opposed to the neuron itself.
That should shave off a number of years of development needed for it.
Still, we're talking about an emulation of a biological intelligence, with the ability of becoming self aware. If that is what we're talking about in regards to AI...
Many games are supposedly using neural net AI.
There's even an AI-program which can play the old game VGA-Planets. It's a simple program, not that intelligent, and it makes a lot of mistakes, but it does play.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2008 : 14:59:10 [Permalink]
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| As long as we don't get Butlerian Jihad, I'm okay... |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2008 : 16:52:49 [Permalink]
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Related, but slightly OT... meet your inner zombie!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Siberia
SFN Addict
Brazil
2322 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2008 : 13:02:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
If we get a Turing level AI, I think we'll have to do a lot of thinking about what intelligence is. About what a person is for that matter.
Honestly, I'm ok with the whole cyborg thing. If we have that level of tech and understanding to "merge" with an AI, we should be able to either maintain our biological bodies for a long period of time, or be able to move into a new one. Obviously that is extreme speculation at this point. But interesting none the less.
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And it would be so, so sweet to have such a thing happen in my (our) lifetime. Even if I don't think it will, I'd love it if it did. |
"Why are you afraid of something you're not even sure exists?"
- The Kovenant, Via Negativa
"People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs."
-- unknown
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2008 : 13:56:06 [Permalink]
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Siberia, there is credible speculation (emphasis on the speculation) that anyone alive 20 years from today may live another 50 years at least.
Some people believe that the first person who will live to 150, robustly, is alive today. Stay alive for 20-30 more years and biology may no longer be the limiting factor for lifespan.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2008 : 09:35:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Siberia, there is credible speculation (emphasis on the speculation) that anyone alive 20 years from today may live another 50 years at least.
Some people believe that the first person who will live to 150, robustly, is alive today. Stay alive for 20-30 more years and biology may no longer be the limiting factor for lifespan.
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Well if biology becomes a non issue (which it certainly should) then even 150 years becomes a joke. Basically the only thing that will kill you would be an accident, murder or war (or you end your own life).
Once We have the technology to be able to "merge" with AI then the technology to maintain "backups" of your mind is right around the corner. Say you choose to remain "mostly" biological (which most probably will....at least at first). Should you get hit by a bus it should be possible to download your mind (the most recent backup) into a new body. We should even be able to maintain backups "on the fly" so to speak....so the only information that would be missing would be the accident itself.
At this point the only way you would permanently die would be from a major catastrophic event....like meteor impact etc... Which is what would make terraforming new planets a priority at this point. Then you could maintain backups on more than one planet. Obviously there would be a greater time lag .....but I could accept that.
The hard part comes in regulating the backups....you don't really want multiple copies of yourself running around at the same time.
This also raises questions about being "uploaded" in the first place. Is your uploaded backup active? Is it aware? Or is somehow kept on ice...so to speak.
This raises another issue. Say you want to merge. How does that work exactly? I mean if my mind is uploaded how do "I" know it worked 100%? And what happens to the biological "me" that still exists? I don't want two "me's" in existence at the same time. Maybe they can show beyond a doubt that "uploads" work without failure....you still going to take that leap if it means your biological self is destroyed simultaneously? |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2008 : 11:07:20 [Permalink]
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| astropin, go get a book by author Richard Morgan, title is Altered Carbon. A work of fiction, but it tackles those issues quite well. It's also a kick-ass action story... One of the best books I have read this century. |
Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2008 : 13:04:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
astropin, go get a book by author Richard Morgan, title is Altered Carbon. A work of fiction, but it tackles those issues quite well. It's also a kick-ass action story... One of the best books I have read this century.
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I just purchased the e-book version....thanks. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2016 : 09:54:25 [Permalink]
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Hey all, so it's been eight years since I posted this...wow. Do I still think strong AI will arrive by the 2020's? Yes I do, if anything I see it as even more likely than I did eight years ago. Billions are being thrown at its development. It appears to be an all out race to see who gets there first. One thing that has changed from eight years ago...I think AI will arrive well before effective nanotech/bots, in fact it will probably be the driver for it.
What form will AI arrive in; brute force computing, massive parallel processing, human brain simulation....etc...? I really don't know which will work/arrive first. And all the perils I felt about it eight years ago are still with me, if anything I may be slightly more pessimistic about AI. I don't see anyway we could control it. Once it takes off we can only hope that "It looks fondly upon its creators". |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1486 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2016 : 11:10:24 [Permalink]
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| For AI to go out of control and take over, it would need to be able to self replicate, and humans would put the kibosh on that right quick me thinks. |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2016 : 13:27:31 [Permalink]
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| I think by the time we figure out we might be in trouble it would already be too late. Not that we will for sure be in trouble. It would take over unbenounced to us....for good or bad. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Is the Technological Singularity coming?
