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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 09/16/2008 : 18:35:26
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Serioulsy. Not kidding. They really have an order to shoot US troops.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2008 : 19:32:04 [Permalink]
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That sucks although the following quote irked me:
| "If an American soldier were to die because of Pakistani military firing that would damage the Pakistani-American relationship for years to come," said Craig Cohen, an analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington. |
But Pakistani civilians dying because of US military firing is not big deal? |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
| Edited by - Simon on 09/16/2008 19:32:26 |
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Zeked
Skeptic Friend
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2008 : 20:34:38 [Permalink]
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Well the US is out of money so maybe we should stop the occupations.
It won't happen, but it would be what a sane government would do. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9696 Posts |
 Posted - 09/16/2008 : 21:36:55 [Permalink]
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Good for the Pakistanians, I say. Stand up to the bully.
If US troops are not invited, they have no business being there. If they are violating Pakistanian territory, it's the Pakistanian's God-Given(tm) right to open fire. All in accord with International law.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2008 : 21:47:55 [Permalink]
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Oh, I don't disagree in principle Mab. No country has the right to send troops into another uninvited. US included.
The fucked up part is that Pakistan is supposed to be an ally. We think a lot of the old Taliban and Bin Laden are hiding in Pakistan along the Afghanistan border.
The Iraq fiasco has sucked us dry. Depleted our military resources and given the Taliban (who used to be our good friends, FYI, back when the USSR was trying to occupy Afghanistan) the opportunity to regroup and reform inside Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Its a fucked up situation.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2008 : 08:01:21 [Permalink]
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In itself, it does make a lot of sense.
The US need to keep the pressure on the Talibans.
But, Pakistan's position is difficult, they have to consider their public opinion -the political troubles and riots last year could still evolve into a full blown civil war; I think- that clearly choose to support the Talibans over the US. And, certainly, the US uni-lateralism and their blunders are not helping.
But... what are the US to do?
That is a very difficult situation for everybody... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2008 : 08:41:51 [Permalink]
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Didn't Bush say "If you're not with us, you're against us?" Or some such crap. So now we can go to war with Pakistan. Problem solved. That's the Bush doctrine, right?
Seriously though. Our last incursion into Pakistan did not go well. We killed Pakistani nationals. It happened. And they are pissed off about it. It seems to me, if we want them to work with us, we must ask them to handle the Taliban on their side of the border. Offer them advisers and coordinate raids. If their intention is to harbor Al-Quida fugitives, we're screwed. We lost our window (thanks to Bush). The best we can do is to not allow the Taliban to gain a stronger foothold in Afghanistan.
I don't know if it has been done, but we need to offer compensation to Pakistan for the damage we have done. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2008 : 09:55:31 [Permalink]
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I happened again.
Things are, at this point, I have trouble imagining Pakistan starting a joint operation with the US. I don't think the Pakistani population would let them.
Also; this stuff is probably not going to help their PR...
I am not sure how thing will evolve, but it could get ugly(er) and the US might very well be on the verge of loosing one of their main ally in the region.
Fine mess the Bush administration is leaving behind... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
| Edited by - Simon on 09/17/2008 09:56:15 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 09/17/2008 : 11:24:35 [Permalink]
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That was several days ago and surely contributed to Pakistan's current position.
If our solution really is to send in drones, if I were Pakistan, I would consider that an act of war.
I hope we aren't that stupid. But the evidence isn't on the side of what I hope... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2008 : 05:31:31 [Permalink]
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| This whole thing is Bush pulling out all the stops to try and kill Bin Laden before his term in office ends. He has his legacy to consider, afterall. Typical reckless Bush 'leadership' - meaningless short term goal at all costs, damn the long term consequences. He doesn't apparently give a shit about the US/Pakistan relationship anymore, sending US troops, in violation of their national sovereignity, after whatever intelligence tips that seem credible, killing civilians, destabilizing the already shaky govt, and pissing off the people we really need to help us in order to salvage Afghanistan. Don't count Bush out as a lame duck, he can still screw things up worse. What a fucking asshole. |
-Chaloobi
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Pakistan troops ordered to shoot US troops
