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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2008 :  18:56:04  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Man; I have to take a break from watching the debate.


McCain is so agressive and dishonest and misleading in his accusations it is seriously getting on my nerve.

Obama, on the other hand, sounds reasonable and respectful. But McCain comes out as a fucking asshole! Not to mention a liar.


Also; what the fuck about studying bears' DNA? What is it even supposed to mean?

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996

H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2008 :  19:02:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
McCain comes across as rambling and evasive. He has a list of points, usually laden with false patriotism and emotion, that he starts talking about no matter the question. Obama, on the other hand, not only hits his own points, but also finds time to correct McCain's lies and bitchslap him in the process. I don't know how any newspaper tomorrow can say anything but that Obama trounced McCain. We'll see.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/26/2008 19:02:33
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2008 :  19:05:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Bear DNA line is a joke he's been using on the campaign trail. You can check out Talking Points Memo and see some blogging on it.

As for the debate, I hate them since no lie gets challenged and anyone can say what they want. Obama seems OK, but it's hard to confront McCain's lies without being tarred by the media as too egg-headed as they did with Al Gore.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2008 :  19:14:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Did anyone hear when McCain almost had a conniption trying to pronounce Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? I swear I heard Obama very faintly in the background offer a polite "gesundheit."

"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2008 :  19:32:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah; I mean:
-McSame: 'I opposed the administrations wasteful practices.
-Obama: 'You did vote for it 90% of the times.
-McLame: 'But they did not like me! I was not miss congeniality! I was a maverick! And now I have another maverick with me.
-Obama: 'Whatever dude.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2008 :  19:35:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow. I'm stunned that McCain is making the concluding remarks he's making. He's living in a fantasy land. Delusional. I mean, he's saying Obama's reaction to Russia's invasion of Georgia was not good-- but McCain was basically calling for the US to engage in a ground war with Russia. Does anyone think that McCain used sound judgment there?
Edited by - Cuneiformist on 09/26/2008 19:36:33
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2008 :  19:52:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ugh. And I hate the post-debate talk. One talking head said something like "Obama lost because he was always trying to explain himself" or some such. Why is that bad? Perhaps the new strategy is to say "my opponent is a pedophile and hates women" and force the opponent to have to "explain himself" re the pedophile or misogynist issue.

Jesus. The banal media conversation is horrible.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13463 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2008 :  20:05:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, look. Foreign policy, lies or not, is McCains turf. Obama was able demonstrate a deep knowledge of foreign affairs, no matter how many times McCain accused him of not being ready. McCains job was to prove that assertion and he failed to do so.

In all fairness, McCain didn't melt down or have a senior moment as most of us might have hoped for. On the other hand he could not trip up Obama.

Result? Obama looks presidential even on foreign affairs. To my thinking, a tie is a slight win for Obama. The economic debate will be advantage, Obama.

I doubt that much will change based on this debate in terms of numbers. One down, three to go, including the VP debate.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2008 :  20:17:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Indeed; I doubt that many voters will have cared enough to tune in.


Now; if only the media would pick up on the many; many lies.
Not gonna happen; of course... media doing their job...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2557 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2008 :  22:52:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Daily KOS take on it:

Given the CNN and CBS polling, the public has overwhelmingly crowned Obama the winner of the debate. It seems that Republicans spent so much time trashing Obama's "lack of experience" and "lack of judgment" on national security, that expectations were ridiculously low, and as a result, people were pleasantly (and happily) surprised.



>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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Chippewa
SFN Regular

USA
1496 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2008 :  22:57:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Chippewa's Homepage Send Chippewa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with Kil on this one and personally thought it was a pretty good debate as debates go. Obama had a slight edge and was both presidential and intelligent.

I also think it was brilliant of the Democrats to have Biden standing by for a short comment following the inevitable McCain spokesperson just after this debate.

Palen was nowhere in sight of course and Biden avoided meaningless blather and briefly zeroed in on specifics reinforcing some of Barack's points.

Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.

"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.)
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2008 :  23:23:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All you politicos........

I think McCain won the unwashed "independent" vote by a tiny margin.

Two reasons.

1. Obama is too much of a calm, reasoned, smart cool cat. He is enormously irritating to the typical high-school dropout, beer-swigging, football-obsessed, gun-owning, Moose hunting, car-worshipping religious Joe Six-Pack American male!

2. Obama is a black man!
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 09/26/2008 :  23:41:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The little smirk McCain was harbouring each time Obama was talking... It was a perfectly calculated to discredit what is opponent was saying without actually talking...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2008 :  03:12:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

All you politicos........

I think McCain won the unwashed "independent" vote by a tiny margin.

Two reasons.

1. Obama is too much of a calm, reasoned, smart cool cat. He is enormously irritating to the typical high-school dropout, beer-swigging, football-obsessed, gun-owning, Moose hunting, car-worshipping religious Joe Six-Pack American male!
2. Obama is a black man!
I gave it to McCain on points. His delivery was as smooth as you could ask for while Obama stammered & stuttered, and said "uh" a lot.

See, debates are not about the issues; those are mere window dressing and an excuse to get on national toob. They are about looking good and McCain won the beauty contest. As for the rhetoric, we've heard it all before. Very short on specifics, which, of course, is true with most debates.

Did anyone notice McCain's eyes? He was blinking like a slo-mo camera shutter. It was almost a distraction.

All in all: painful to watch.

Edit: Changed m'mind. There is no edit.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 09/27/2008 03:19:34
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2008 :  04:30:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My thoughts are that, first, committed voters aren't going to be swayed by that debate, as neither candidate melted down. I was shocked that McCain was fairly conversant with (though wrong about) international affairs, but this was probably due to the fact that I'm simply accustomed to Dubya's extreme ignorance.

I was quite repelled by the way McCain kept trying to use "patriotic" phrases and knee-jerk code phrases as though they were post-hypnotic suggestions to activate fundy-reactionary zombies.

After the debate, the network talking heads were almost unanimous in deriding Obama and in declaring McCain the winner. This was so far out of kilter with the popular reaction that I'm seriously starting to wonder if the networks are all functionaries of the GOP. On the other hand, the polls may simply be reflecting Obama's overwhelming support rather than the quality of the debating. (I know I actually "voted" on the basis of who I supported instead of who debated best.) Still, I simply can't see what would make any honest commentator think McCain "won."

I honestly felt that Obama won the debate by a nose. And this, since McCain's perceived strength is foreign policy, this first debate was probably the GOP's finest hour of the several debates. Can you imagine how bad McCain is going to look when Obama beats him over the head with his own economy record? Or how gruesome will be the sight of the Biden-Palin debate?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 09/27/2008 04:30:28
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 09/27/2008 :  05:09:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been riccocheting around the blogs a bit this morning, and the general consensus is that Obama won on the issues, for whatever that's worth -- people want to see a punch-out, and the issues be damned. They can come later. There was no punch-out, neither literally nor figurativly.

But I'll posit a wager: betcha Obama will not lead off so many of his remarks with "Uh!" in the next, and mercifully, last one.

Next Thursday night, we get Biden Palin. That should be amusing, if nothing else.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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