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 Bailout rejected by the House
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  13:12:16  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Whelp, I guess this deserves a thread of its own.

House Rejects Bailout Package, 228-205; Stocks Plunge
WASHINGTON In a moment of historic import in the Capitol and on Wall Street, the House of Representatives voted on Monday to reject a $700 billion rescue of the financial industry. The vote came in stunning defiance of President Bush and Congressional leaders of both parties, who said the bailout was needed to prevent a widespread financial collapse.


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project

Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  13:50:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It does!


Hmmm; I wonder what is going to happen. I guess the text will be rewritten and tried again?

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  13:52:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh darn, a bill that puts $700billion of taxpayer money at risk, and gives the exec a $100B discretionary fund, fails... I can't say I'm upset over this.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  13:55:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Simon asked:
Hmmm; I wonder what is going to happen. I guess the text will be rewritten and tried again?

When they come back in session in a few days they will make some superficial changes to this bill, appease the ~20 holdout votes to give them something to campaign on back home... then vote again.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  13:58:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well; interestingly, most people that voted against it were Republicans (133 Republicans and 95 Democrats which is even more significant when comparing the proportions of the two parties at the congress).

Nevertheless, Republicans are blaming Pelosi about it... 'cause, you know, who care about facts and simple logic!

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  14:02:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Simon asked:
Hmmm; I wonder what is going to happen. I guess the text will be rewritten and tried again?

When they come back in session in a few days they will make some superficial changes to this bill, appease the ~20 holdout votes to give them something to campaign on back home... then vote again.


I wonder. Public opinion is turning on both the right and the left. It could be that they will have to start from scratch. If getting reelected is on the line, I dunno...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  14:10:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So... How is it going to influence the campaign.
I read that it might handicap McCain; but I am not sure why exactly.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  14:26:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

So... How is it going to influence the campaign.
I read that it might handicap McCain; but I am not sure why exactly.
McCain road in to fix everything. I don't see how this could help him. Nothing was fixed and he just looks like a jerk.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  14:50:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well; it might show that he is not all that influencing among his fellow republicans.
I am not sure if that is that much of a problem, especially considering that he tries to present himself as the maverick dark sheep of the republican herd.

On the other hands, the Rovian machinery is already trying to pin this mess down on the democrats.


All in all, I guess, I just don't see it really helping or hurting either candidate and I am wondering if there is a factor I am overlooking...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  16:03:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing that's frustrating is that it's difficult-- really difficult to understand what's going on here to even know if this is good or bad. And I'm quite skeptical that everyone in Congress understand this, too.

So when I read news like this, I don't know what to think.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26001 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  16:59:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Barney Frank is awesome:
Because somebody hurt their feelings, they decided to hurt the country......Give me those 12 people's names, I will talk uncharacteristically nicely to them.
Not that I'm in favor of the bill, I just find blaming its failure on Pelosi is ridiculous.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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calebjones1234
BANNED

95 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  18:54:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send calebjones1234 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Federal Reserve, just an hour after the vote, created another new $630 Billion for the financial industry.

The vote was theater.

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moakley
SFN Regular

USA
1884 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  19:21:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send moakley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Originally posted by Simon

So... How is it going to influence the campaign.
I read that it might handicap McCain; but I am not sure why exactly.
McCain road in to fix everything. I don't see how this could help him. Nothing was fixed and he just looks like a jerk.
I just don't see this helping McCain, either. Prior to the vote McCain and his cronies were taking credit for the bill. Showing true leadership by phoning it in over the weekend. Does he accept responsibility for its failure. Nope. They blame it on harse words describing the reality of the last 8 years. Poor babies. Poor whinning fucking babies.

And on msnbc I see sound bytes from today after the vote. McCain essentially blaming Obama and the democrats and Obama imploring democrats and republicans to work together to resolve this problem.

This is nuts. Why is this election still as close as it is?

edited to add: In one day the market loses 1.3 trilion dollars. Or so I heard on msnbc.

Life is good

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous
Edited by - moakley on 09/29/2008 19:24:22
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calebjones1234
BANNED

95 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  19:24:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send calebjones1234 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by moakley

[quote]I just don't see this helping McCain, either. Prior to the vote McCain and his cronies were taking credit for the bill. Showing true leadership by phoning it in over the weekend. Does he accept responsibility for its failure. Nope. They blame it on harse words describing the reality of the last 8 years. Poor babies. Poor whinning fucking babies.


???

McCain is a Senator, the Senate did not vote on this bill.
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calebjones1234
BANNED

95 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  19:27:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send calebjones1234 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by moakley

[quote]
This is nuts. Why is this election still as close as it is?



Because Obama promised during the debate to spend even more money that we do not have and does not exist, despite the economic circumstance.

Many people understand the idiocy of such a plan.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 09/29/2008 :  19:30:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

One thing that's frustrating is that it's difficult-- really difficult to understand what's going on here to even know if this is good or bad. And I'm quite skeptical that everyone in Congress understand this, too.

So when I read news like this, I don't know what to think.
Man, anything to do with managing money or finances makes my eyes glaze over, so I'm far from knowledgeable in this area. But from what I gather, the average American taxpayer is going to be put over the barrel no matter what. Either we fork up the cash to bail out the markets, or the markets collapse and take us down with them. At best we can expect to pass some legislation regulating this sort of thing so it doesn't happen again. Small consolation.

I also have a very bad feeling about all this. Part of me thinks this is much, much worse than anyone has yet to fully realize. Call me an optimist I guess.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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