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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2008 : 05:24:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
A point does not seem to be able to be made to you concerning this topic. You reflectively fell into the defense position of 'It is not our fault'. Do you realize that the theater of the House vote was attempting to cause such reactions from the public? |
I'm sure it had nothing to do with your inability to put together a coherent argument.
| You have been manipulated. |
I doubt it.
| You are viewing the subject with an Us vs Them mentality. This was exactly the point of the vote, Pelosi's speech prior to the vote accusing the GOP, and the GOP's response after the vote blaming Pelosi. You should really attempt to watch the theater live as opposed to allowing yourself to be told by others what to think. |
How do you know how I'm "viewing the subject"? And what on earth does Pelosi's speech have to do with anything?
You speak as though you think you know something about economics or finance, but nothing you've said actually shows that you do.
[/quote] |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 15:35:20 [Permalink]
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| McCain... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
| Edited by - Simon on 10/01/2008 15:36:19 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 15:42:07 [Permalink]
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Yeah, what a week indeed. McCain's numbers fell almost as fast as the stock market. Just yesterday he was blaming the democrats for the lack of agreement over the bailout.
Yeah, what a week... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend
Hong Kong
380 Posts |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 17:47:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by chefcrsh
Excuse me but, what the heck does:
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/01/congress.bailout/index.html
The "sweeteners" in the package include:
Tax exemptions for renewable energy
A measure that would require health insurers to treat mental health issues the same way they treat physical illnesses |
Have to do with the economic melt down and its repair?
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They don't. The idea here is to throw some bones to people who might otherwise be against something.
You know-- mom wanted to you have the broccoli and you didn't, so she promised an extra slice of cake. So you made a face, ate the broccoli, quickly gulped down some milk, and really enjoyed that cake.
Congress: It's like being a kid all over again. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 18:19:35 [Permalink]
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The "sweeteners" also add some $133 billion (IIRC), making it an $833 billion bill.
Of course, one of the sweeteners is also the waiving of the Alternative Minimum Tax, so the 20 million richest taxpayers (out of 138 million - 2007 figure) won't have to pay more in 2008 taxes than if it weren't waived. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 18:36:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
The "sweeteners" also add some $133 billion (IIRC), making it an $833 billion bill.
Of course, one of the sweeteners is also the waiving of the Alternative Minimum Tax, so the 20 million richest taxpayers (out of 138 million - 2007 figure) won't have to pay more in 2008 taxes than if it weren't waived.
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Do you have any clue as to the history of the AMT?
I can not deduct my mortgage payment because I am deemed rich.
They are counting in 1970's dollars!
Most of the "loopholes" in the tax code which were the initiation of the AMT have since been closed.
You probably think Bush cut taxes on the "rich".
What was the threshold for FICA payments when Bush took office, and what are they now?
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend
Hong Kong
380 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 18:44:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
You know-- mom wanted to you have the broccoli and you didn't, so she promised an extra slice of cake. So you made a face, ate the broccoli, quickly gulped down some milk, and really enjoyed that cake.
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<Chef in deep regret over the many lost chances at extra cake, all because he enjoyed the stupid broccoli> |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 18:51:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
Originally posted by Dave W.
The "sweeteners" also add some $133 billion (IIRC), making it an $833 billion bill.
Of course, one of the sweeteners is also the waiving of the Alternative Minimum Tax, so the 20 million richest taxpayers (out of 138 million - 2007 figure) won't have to pay more in 2008 taxes than if it weren't waived.
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Do you have any clue as to the history of the AMT?
I can not deduct my mortgage payment because I am deemed rich.
They are counting in 1970's dollars!
Most of the "loopholes" in the tax code which were the initiation of the AMT have since been closed. |
This is all true-- it's something Congress has needed to fix for a long time. One hopes that it will be finally remedied soon!| You probably think Bush cut taxes on the "rich". |
Well, he did!| What was the threshold for FICA payments when Bush took office, and what are they now? |
You tell me, and then explain how it proves your point unequivocally! |
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend
Hong Kong
380 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 18:55:23 [Permalink]
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| <Chef also regrets the many ideologic alleged "Libertarians" through dogmatic worship of failed non-libertarian, republican, largest-fastest-growing-government-and debt-while-completely-marginalizing-the-needs-of-the-individual-in-favor-of-welfare-for-the-wealthy, policy, who make it awfully difficult for people who simply believe the individual is the primary unit of the measurement of progress, and thus individual liberty is the IDEAL outcome (not mandate) of all government, to get their point across.> |
| Edited by - chefcrsh on 10/01/2008 18:55:39 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 19:09:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
Do you have any clue as to the history of the AMT? |
Interestingly, you didn't ping me on the fact that I misspoke. It's not the richest 20 million taxpayers who will be saved from the AMT, but 20 million somewhere-towards-the-top taxpayers. The richest will still have to pay it. The reporter I heard said "waive the AMT," though, and it stuck in my head.
Unless the Senate bill really is going to waive the AMT, instead of just raise the limit like in most previous years.| I can not deduct my mortgage payment because I am deemed rich. |
Nobody gets to deduct mortgage payments. It's only the interest, of course.| What was the threshold for FICA payments when Bush took office, and what are they now? |
Yeah, FICA is bizarre, because it's a recessive tax. Why they didn't at least flatten it, I don't know. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 19:14:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
[quote]Interestingly, you didn't ping me on the fact that I misspoke. It's not the richest 20 million taxpayers who will be saved from the AMT, but 20 million somewhere-towards-the-top taxpayers. |
This is because I understood your point, and generally do not play the game of "find the inconsequential error'. |
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calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2008 : 19:17:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
[quote]Yeah, FICA is bizarre, because it's a recessive tax. Why they didn't at least flatten it, I don't know.
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This is because the way it was able to be passed was that it was termed a premium payment on insurance, or some such nomenclature. It was never 'sold' as a tax. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 06:40:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Barney Frank is awesome |
Barney Frank, chairman of the HFSC, in 2003:
"These two entities, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, are not facing any kind of financial crisis."
and
"The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing."
And now this guy champions himself as key to the bill that will fix the mess?!?!?!?! Nice...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barney_Frank |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 10/02/2008 06:42:37 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2008 : 10:54:13 [Permalink]
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Interesting catch Bill. Here is an article on it:
New Agency Proposed to Oversee Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae
I doubt that the handover would have prevented the overall meltdown that took place, especially since the Bush administration was hot to deregulate, and that Fanny and Freddy were for being moved to executive branch regulations. But I dunno…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Bailout rejected by the House
