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 General Powell does the right thing!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  07:19:13  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I figgered he would.
Watching NBC's Meet the Press - Tom Brokaw is killing me - he totally buried the lede, asking Powell about the economy and generic issues first. Now we're finally on to the question of the Presidential race (all quotes are quick verbatims, not exact quotes):

Powell was concerned about McCain's response to the economic crisis.

About Palin: I don't believe Sarah Palin is ready.

Powell was angry about the Bill Ayers and how it was used by the McCain camapign and the Republican party.

Supreme Court "I would have difficult with two more (conservative) appointments to the Supreme Court"

On the use of religion as a divisive issue in : "We have got to stop polarizing ourselves this way"

Based on these issues, Colin Powell endorsed Barack Obama.

"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  09:41:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Filthy.....

In an Obama administration, how do you feel about a re-run for Powell as Secretary of State?

Or Secretary of Defense? Or any Cabinet post?

Remember his "weapons of mass destruction" speech(s). He is a registered Republican and there was a time when he was pretty much seen as a Bushie.

Any comments from any of you open-minded, "bygones", liberals out there? Me, I think he's an opportunist.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  10:46:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Filthy.....

In an Obama administration, how do you feel about a re-run for Powell as Secretary of State?

Or Secretary of Defense? Or any Cabinet post?

Remember his "weapons of mass destruction" speech(s). He is a registered Republican and there was a time when he was pretty much seen as a Bushie.

Any comments from any of you open-minded, "bygones", liberals out there? Me, I think he's an opportunist.
While he never actually closed the door, he stated that he wasn't interested in further serving in government. Further, I do not think Obama would call on him.

Certainly he's an opportunist; all flag rank officers are, else they would never attain the rank. They are all master politicians as well. This in itself is not necessarily a bad thing. It can get a good man in a position where he can be of great benefit to his service and his country. However, I do not think Obama needs Powell, as his recent record could be a drag on his administration. There are plenty more out there to call upon, but don't ask me who, as I haven't given the matter any thought and won't until Nov 5. (Actually, I'm lying a little bit but refuse to make the statement until I'm certain it's not futile.)






"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13457 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  11:10:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I saw Meet the Press this morning. Good deal. What is little known, I think, was the animosity between Colin Powell and Dick Cheney, as Cheney sought and succeeded to undercut the State Department and Powell as well. Powell, being the good solder that he is, he went along with the program, but his advice to Bush on Iraq was "If you break it, you will have to fix it." That was a warning not to go. He was a voice for reason in the White House. Unfortunately, Cheney, the neocon, won the argument.

I doubt that Powell will ever admit publicly that he fought against the invasion of Iraq.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Chippewa
SFN Regular

USA
1496 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  12:28:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Chippewa's Homepage Send Chippewa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is a big positive plus. I saw Powell on Meet the Press and filthy's quotes are quite accurate. It will, I predict be appreciated especially by higher information voters.
The lowbrow group that is now McCain/Palin's base won't get the significance of Powell's endorsement and McCain of course hasn't addressed it at his rallies.

My main concern is vote fraud and voter suppression by the Republicans. Given Obama's growing national support and public enthusiasm, the NeoCons surely want the results to be as close as possible, as in 2000.
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend

Hong Kong
380 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  16:15:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send chefcrsh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The low brow already assumed one black man would vote for another.
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  16:38:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And the mudslinging begins.

Asshat Pat Buchanan on msnbc calling Powel a fake republican and an opportunist.

Bet you the talk radio jerkoffs will mirror him, and more, monday.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25973 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  17:18:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

Bet you the talk radio jerkoffs will mirror him, and more, monday.
No need to wait. Rush Limbaugh sent an email no later than 2 PM today:
Rush Limbaugh suggested Powell's move was very much related to Obama's status as the first African-American with a chance to become president.

"Secretary Powell says his endorsement is not about race," Limbaugh wrote in an e-mail. "OK, fine. I am now researching his past endorsements to see if I can find all the inexperienced, very liberal, white candidates he has endorsed. I'll let you know what I come up with."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  18:36:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

I figgered he would.
Watching NBC's Meet the Press - Tom Brokaw is killing me - he totally buried the lede, asking Powell about the economy and generic issues first. Now we're finally on to the question of the Presidential race (all quotes are quick verbatims, not exact quotes):

Powell was concerned about McCain's response to the economic crisis.

About Palin: I don't believe Sarah Palin is ready.

Powell was angry about the Bill Ayers and how it was used by the McCain camapign and the Republican party.

Supreme Court "I would have difficult with two more (conservative) appointments to the Supreme Court"

On the use of religion as a divisive issue in : "We have got to stop polarizing ourselves this way"

Based on these issues, Colin Powell endorsed Barack Obama.



MSNBC caught him just after the interview where he expounded on why he was choosing Obama. I'll relay the gist rather than exact quotes.

On the campaign: He was concerned that the McCain campaign seemed to be completely lost. Switching the focus from issues to personal attacks when the economy tanked.

On the party in general: While he is still a Republican, he feels that the party has moved too far to the right. That and the selection of a wholly unqualified individual for VP forced his hand.


Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  22:03:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All Powell second-guessers.....

I just came home from from seeing "W"., Oliver Stone's new movie about Bush. In my view, it was superb! It definitely was not a hatchet job, that would have been far too easy for Stone.

No, "W" is a very precise filleting procedure - almost surgical in it's precision.

You have to watch closely to catch all the nuance, the delicacy with which Stone and Josh Brolin carefully dissect the Bush persona and lay out it's monstrously ugly internal organs for public review! No chopping and slashing here - this is very tightly controlled parody that would do Jonathan Swift justice!

By the time you are out of the 2+ hour movie, you are angry, sad, outraged, sorry, and somehow semi-understanding of an extremely flawed human being who is, at once, one of the greatest monsters of all human history; and at the same time, a pathetic shell of what a man, and a leader should be!

Powell is portrayed very well by Jeffrey Wright, and much of the dialog that Kil refers to above is verbatim in the movie. In general, the film is sympathetic to Powell, showing him as a conflicted soldier, agonizing between what is is right and what is duty!

I highly recommend it to any one who occasionally actually thinks, instead of reflexively reacting in a classic Pavlovian response to that with which they do, or do not agree!
Edited by - bngbuck on 10/19/2008 22:05:41
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  22:16:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kil said:
I saw Meet the Press this morning. Good deal. What is little known, I think, was the animosity between Colin Powell and Dick Cheney, as Cheney sought and succeeded to undercut the State Department and Powell as well. Powell, being the good solder that he is, he went along with the program, but his advice to Bush on Iraq was "If you break it, you will have to fix it." That was a warning not to go. He was a voice for reason in the White House. Unfortunately, Cheney, the neocon, won the argument.

I doubt that Powell will ever admit publicly that he fought against the invasion of Iraq.

Powel is a coward. He could have swayed events, could have spoken out publicly, could have resigned after they duped him into giving that UN speech. Instead he quietly stepped down after one term and remained virtually silent.

This endorsement is not quite enough to restore the respect I once had for this man.

But hell, the Bush admin has dozens of ex-members who share the same problem. They refused to resign over, or speak out publicly against, shit like waterboarding, rendition, illegal invasions and all that. Some have come forward long after the fact, but they are still cowards.

Basically what I am saying is; Fuck anyone who has ever been a part of the Bush admin who had knowledge of the evil shit and didn't walk out the fucking door. They are all useless pieces of shit. I'll include the democrats who were involved as well, the ones who knew about the torture, illegal spying, etc.. and remained silent because Bush fucking threatened them... useless fucking cowards. If anything I have more contempt for them than I do for the republicans who were a part of it.

/rant end

There... now I feel better.



Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2008 :  23:38:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with Dude. In the run-up to the present Iraq War, Powell blew it when he kept his conscience to himself and did nothing.

Here's the man who developed the eminently sensible Powell Doctrine, yet he never publicly criticized the totally moronic Bush Doctrine (the policy Palin didn't know about).

I agree with Powell's expressed reasoning for endorsing Barack Obama -- but crap: when the shit hit the fan in Iraq, even though Powell knew better, he actually helped make it happen!

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/19/2008 23:39:01
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13457 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2008 :  09:42:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I suspect that Powell, as a solder, saw his first duty to the president. He was also a lone voice of moderation in an administration full of neocon hawks. Had he walked, his only chance to influence the president away from what Powell saw as a flawed foreign policy, which became known as The Bush Doctrine, would have walked with him. I think he thought that he could do more from the inside.

It's way to easy to call a complicated man in a complicated situation a coward. Mistakes were made but hind sight is 20/20. I suspect he saw a runaway train and did his best to slow it down. If you look at the rest of the cabinet, and those neocons that had Bush's ear, you get an idea of what he was up against. Had he left the administration, could he have changed anything from outside of it? Perhaps, but again, hind site is 20/20.
One thing is for sure. If he had left the administration, there would have been no one there fighting for a more moderate policy with regard to matters of state.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2008 :  09:53:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hindsight, my hind end.

Criminals all..


I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



Edited by - Gorgo on 10/20/2008 09:53:47
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13457 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2008 :  10:17:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Gorgo

Hindsight, my hind end.

Criminals all..


The fact remains that Powell did not support the Bush Doctrine. He fought with Rumsfeld and Cheney and all of the other neocons for a more moderate approach in our foreign policy.

Whatever truth there is to the link that you supplied does not change the fact that he fought with Cheney and the rest of the neocons over policy.

Sometimes, Gorgo I think you view the world as diveded up by criminals and good guys. Black and white. Again, this simplifies things. It's so much easier to remove all of the grey areas and not complicate things. But the reality is things are rarely that simple.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard

USA
5310 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2008 :  10:30:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Gorgo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Sometimes, Gorgo I think you view the world as diveded up by criminals and good guys.


Unlike you, who seems to be supporting murder "in hindsight" because of a need to violate the law in order eliminate evil from the world.

These people knew what they were doing. Powell wasn't "duped" any more than I was. If they disagreed, they disagreed only in how to murder and impoverish Iraqis.

I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter



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