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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  05:33:27  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Progress on using stem cells to grow organs...
Sure glad both presidential candidates don't share GW's absolute stupidity over stem cell research. Not that the government's going to have much money to invest in research anyway....

http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2008/1022/1?rss=1


Building a New Prostate
By Rachel Zelkowitz
ScienceNOW Daily News
22 October 2008

Starting from a single stem cell, scientists have now produced a functional prostate gland. This marks only the second time researchers have generated a whole organ from a single stem cell, representing major advances for stem cell research and our understanding of prostate development, experts say.
Creating viable organs to transplant into ailing patients is a holy grail of stem cell research. The first success came in 2006 when researchers created mammary glands after discovering mammary stem cells in mice. Since then, researchers have been working furiously to coax stem cells into forming other organs. The prostate seemed a promising target because previous studies with mice revealed that it contained cells with the same protein markers as other known stem cells, suggesting that the necessary stem cells might be relatively easy to find.

<snip>

"This is a very significant finding," says Stephen Badylak, regenerative medicine specialist at the University of Pittsburgh in Pennsylvania. The study marks an important step toward the goal of organ regeneration, Badylak says, but more work is needed to ensure that cells in the regenerated organs know when to stop growing and what shape to take.



-Chaloobi

Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  20:16:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's really impressive...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  21:10:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I bet a 16 million diabetics in American would welcome a replacement for their defunct pancrea...


Or perhaps not as many as 16M. I forgot that some people would consider stem-cell-research evil. There are bound to be diabetics who oppose such treatments.
An uncle of my mother was a Jehovah's Witness, and when his kidneys were failing, he refused dialysis. She watched her uncle slowly and in much pain and agony go insane as his brain was being slowly poisoned by his own urine.
The lesson learnt: Some people are too dumb for their own good, and religion exacerbate the problem. Never let your religious views stand in the way of getting proper treatment, because what good is a dead worshipper, if he can't bear witness of his God to his next of kin?



Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 10/23/2008 :  23:34:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Chaloobi and Mabuse....

Being old, diabetic, and prostrate with fury at my antiquated prostate, I really hope I can survive long enough to get me one of those, to paraphrase Will Smith.

I have benign prostate hyperplasia, and it is really a pain in the ass, both before and after examination time! Fucker is about the size of a watermelon and compresses my bladder into something smaller than a buckyball. I call it my peepea connected to my pee-pee.

You guys have a lot to look forward to in your Golden Years! But articles such as this keep me hoping that....if I can just last long enough, they'll build a restoration shop that will make me marketable vehicle again!
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  04:53:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Chaloobi and Mabuse....

Being old, diabetic, and prostrate with fury at my antiquated prostate, I really hope I can survive long enough to get me one of those, to paraphrase Will Smith.

I have benign prostate hyperplasia, and it is really a pain in the ass, both before and after examination time! Fucker is about the size of a watermelon and compresses my bladder into something smaller than a buckyball. I call it my peepea connected to my pee-pee.

You guys have a lot to look forward to in your Golden Years! But articles such as this keep me hoping that....if I can just last long enough, they'll build a restoration shop that will make me marketable vehicle again!
#1. That totally sucks and I hope this type of thing does become available in a timely manner...

#2. I have a sense medical technology is on the cusp of making much of the current age related illnesses a thing of the past. Whether we in the US will be able to afford the treatments is another question...

There's some "futurist" who made the prediction that if you live the next 15 years then medical tehcnology will increase average life expectancy faster than you age. I'll have to search for the article on but he accurately predicted a few techno-related things from the 70s that came true in the 90s.

Recently I read that researchers had isolated a pair of chemicals - 1 that stimulates (in mice) the physiological responses that are traditionally achieved through exercise. And another that mimics the effects of caloric restriction, which vastly reduces virtually all age-related illnesses. Neither has definitively shown a large increase in life-span but they have shown a reduction in age related disease and presumably a corresponding improvement in quality of life. To paraphrase the researcher - the mice stayed fit and disease free their whole life-span but for reasons as yet unexplained tended to suddenly drop dead at about the expected average age. I'm thinking these pharmas might be the solution to the medicare problem - if you can wipe away most of these age-related illnesses with a reasonably inexpensive drug, medicare costs would plummet.

-Chaloobi

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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2996 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  05:08:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobiI'm thinking these pharmas might be the solution to the medicare problem - if you can wipe away most of these age-related illnesses with a reasonably inexpensive drug, medicare costs would plummet.


Then we'll never see this drug.

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  06:23:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by pleco

Originally posted by chaloobiI'm thinking these pharmas might be the solution to the medicare problem - if you can wipe away most of these age-related illnesses with a reasonably inexpensive drug, medicare costs would plummet.


Then we'll never see this drug.
The pharma company that gets most Americans taking these drugs on a daily basis for their entire adult lives is going to be a happy pharma company. And these guys are powerful. Just look at the idiotic medicare prescription drug bill they got the republicans to pass.... if they got that through, they can do just about anything.

-Chaloobi

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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  08:31:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobi

Originally posted by bngbuck

Chaloobi and Mabuse....

Being old, diabetic, and prostrate with fury at my antiquated prostate, I really hope I can survive long enough to get me one of those, to paraphrase Will Smith.

I have benign prostate hyperplasia, and it is really a pain in the ass, both before and after examination time! Fucker is about the size of a watermelon and compresses my bladder into something smaller than a buckyball. I call it my peepea connected to my pee-pee.

You guys have a lot to look forward to in your Golden Years! But articles such as this keep me hoping that....if I can just last long enough, they'll build a restoration shop that will make me marketable vehicle again!
#1. That totally sucks and I hope this type of thing does become available in a timely manner...

#2. I have a sense medical technology is on the cusp of making much of the current age related illnesses a thing of the past. Whether we in the US will be able to afford the treatments is another question...

There's some "futurist" who made the prediction that if you live the next 15 years then medical tehcnology will increase average life expectancy faster than you age. I'll have to search for the article on but he accurately predicted a few techno-related things from the 70s that came true in the 90s.

Recently I read that researchers had isolated a pair of chemicals - 1 that stimulates (in mice) the physiological responses that are traditionally achieved through exercise. And another that mimics the effects of caloric restriction, which vastly reduces virtually all age-related illnesses. Neither has definitively shown a large increase in life-span but they have shown a reduction in age related disease and presumably a corresponding improvement in quality of life. To paraphrase the researcher - the mice stayed fit and disease free their whole life-span but for reasons as yet unexplained tended to suddenly drop dead at about the expected average age. I'm thinking these pharmas might be the solution to the medicare problem - if you can wipe away most of these age-related illnesses with a reasonably inexpensive drug, medicare costs would plummet.


I am on the side of medical research. Not a medical researcher myself, but in veterinary science and hence, closer than most people...

From what I gathered, they are making progress in both cancer and HIV therapy.
Essentially, I think that within 10 years, we will start seeing actual treatment of cancer (instead of injecting poison into the patient counting on the cancer cells to die faster than the patient).
In 30 years, I think, survival and recovery will be the prognostic for most cancer.

Within 10 years, we will get the DNA vaccines on the market. It will provide more efficient vaccines for a bunch of disease, especially intracellular parasites like viruses.

Within 10 to 20 years, we should also see the dawn of gene therapy and the first cures for some genetic disease. Diabetes type A will probably be among the first ones.

Using this technology, we should quickly see Telomerase treatments, the first treatment to actually increase the cell's life.
Other treatments will likely follow, albeit I am not sure at which rate, the physiology of ageing is still a bit fuzzy and, once we get a hurdle out of the way, who can predict when and what the next one will be?
Nevertheless, I suspect that within 50 years, real longevity treatments with significant results will be available.

In the meantime, the industry will invest heavily in 'quality of life' drugs for the seniors. They are a fast expanding market with a higher than average revenue.
There is money to make there...


So... We are leaving a very interesting time in term of medical advances (especially as I am being rather too careful in my predictions rather than not careful enough)...
Maybe not on the verge of almost immortality, but on the verge of a quick expansion of our given time...


I am guess, my point is... hang in there bngbuck and you other pleasant seniors progress is on its way...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  09:40:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The only fly in the ointment is cost. If these treatments are not considerably cheaper than the current status quo, then they will not be widely available to anyone in the US.

-Chaloobi

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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  09:59:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Probably, although, people will probably be likely to devote money to live better, it's a good motivation.
Especially as life is going to last longer, it makes it a better investment.

As for gene therapy... Big pharma will like it better for you to keep on paying for treatments regularly rather than just have one definitive treatment and be done with it...
Health insurances, on the contrary, and 'socialized' medicine in particular, will privilege it the other way. My money is on this later group to win.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  11:25:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

Probably, although, people will probably be likely to devote money to live better, it's a good motivation.
Especially as life is going to last longer, it makes it a better investment.

As for gene therapy... Big pharma will like it better for you to keep on paying for treatments regularly rather than just have one definitive treatment and be done with it...
Health insurances, on the contrary, and 'socialized' medicine in particular, will privilege it the other way. My money is on this later group to win.
But big pharma has to actually do the research, right? Why would they research a 1-shot cure when they can be working on the next viagra?

-Chaloobi

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25975 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  11:31:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobi

But big pharma has to actually do the research, right? Why would they research a 1-shot cure when they can be working on the next viagra?
Because the one-shot cure could be priced a hundred times higher, because it's a cure. The number of customers the first couple of years would also be extremely high, because it's a cure. Multiply, and you'll find that a few years of doling out cures is worth more than the seven-to-ten years of selling boring ol' treatments (before the patent expires and they go generic). As a stockholder, which would you rather have?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  11:42:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Chaloobi and Mabuse....

Being old, diabetic, and prostrate with fury at my antiquated prostate, I really hope I can survive long enough to get me one of those, to paraphrase Will Smith.

I have benign prostate hyperplasia, and it is really a pain in the ass, both before and after examination time! Fucker is about the size of a watermelon and compresses my bladder into something smaller than a buckyball. I call it my peepea connected to my pee-pee.

You guys have a lot to look forward to in your Golden Years! But articles such as this keep me hoping that....if I can just last long enough, they'll build a restoration shop that will make me marketable vehicle again!


Have you ever considered cryonics to get you through to the other side of technology? Some think it's crazy. I think it's crazy not to if you can easily afford it. Here's the logic.

1)You sign up and it does not work = you're dead.
2)You don't sign up and technology is still to far off to work for you = you're dead.
3)You don't sign up but the technology works for those who did = You screwed yourself....and you're dead.
4)You do sing up and it does work....congratulations....your going to live MUCH longer than you ever thought possible.

Even if the odds of #4 are very small the possible rewards far out way the alternative.....which is....you're dead.

Here is a good article on the feasibility - http://www.merkle.com/cryo/techFeas.html


I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
Edited by - astropin on 10/24/2008 13:16:13
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  11:52:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobi

Originally posted by Simon

Probably, although, people will probably be likely to devote money to live better, it's a good motivation.
Especially as life is going to last longer, it makes it a better investment.

As for gene therapy... Big pharma will like it better for you to keep on paying for treatments regularly rather than just have one definitive treatment and be done with it...
Health insurances, on the contrary, and 'socialized' medicine in particular, will privilege it the other way. My money is on this later group to win.
But big pharma has to actually do the research, right? Why would they research a 1-shot cure when they can be working on the next viagra?


In fact, most research is still done by academia nowadays for this reason.
The pharmaceutical companies only pick it up when most of the research is done and the product is almost ready.

When 'Big Pharma' does do some research, they generally take an already existing molecule (that they know will work) and tweak it just enough to by-pass the intellectual property laws and patent it as their own.
That allow them to minimize the risk to their investment, but it very rarely leads to actual innovations...


And, indeed, they are much more interested in the next viagra than in developing/selling vaccines.
That's why the vaccine scare is so annoying... big companies hardly make money out of vaccines.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
Edited by - Simon on 10/24/2008 11:55:51
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chaloobi
SFN Regular

1620 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  13:03:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send chaloobi a Yahoo! Message Send chaloobi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by chaloobi

But big pharma has to actually do the research, right? Why would they research a 1-shot cure when they can be working on the next viagra?
Because the one-shot cure could be priced a hundred times higher, because it's a cure. The number of customers the first couple of years would also be extremely high, because it's a cure. Multiply, and you'll find that a few years of doling out cures is worth more than the seven-to-ten years of selling boring ol' treatments (before the patent expires and they go generic). As a stockholder, which would you rather have?
You make a good point with the expiring patent. In effect that makes the revenue model for all drugs look more like a cure.

-Chaloobi

Edited by - chaloobi on 10/24/2008 13:04:01
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25975 Posts

Posted - 10/24/2008 :  16:50:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by chaloobi

You make a good point with the expiring patent. In effect that makes the revenue model for all drugs look more like a cure.
I've got to admit, I've thought about this before.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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