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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2008 :  12:07:11  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A bedini motor and circuit claims to drive a DC pulse motor with a lead acid battery and charge another lead acid battery and the overall effect is an efficiency above 100%. From this site:

http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=554

Signs of a scam:

New Math not understood by experts of the day:
Forget standard electronic theory for this device. Your calculations will be wrong everytime. The theories necessary to fit this device are buried in the old Tesla texts, and the Bearden writings.


Cannot tell you how it works yet because of some reason. (But it works trust me)
Therefore, YOU must understand completely how this process works to be able to replicate it. And it is a patented process in this system, so I cannot divulge the exact processes involved.
So I cannot replicate the results, so I must take their word for it? Makes no sense.

Some sort of cover up and urgency fo the technology:

I will say that many of the people on this planet are not ready for a technology that actually utilizes this type of energy, because the profiteers are trying to run the show. It was buried in the past, and now we have a chance to grasp it once again, before it is too late


I am making one of these motors just for something to do and to prove to people that it cannot work. Although if it is some new theory that I do not understand then I do not have a chance right. Alot of people have invested in this technology over the years. I found a forum that is about builing one of these. One guy claimed that he had an overunity device because the voltage on the charged battery was higher than the voltage on the initial drive battery. And I do not understand electrical theory?

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington

H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2008 :  12:11:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Therefore, YOU must understand completely how this process works to be able to replicate it. And it is a patented process in this system, so I cannot divulge the exact processes involved.
That right there is pretty awesome in its sheer stupidity. "You can't criticize my process unless you understand how it works. But I'm not going to tell you how it works, therefore I am immune from criticism." Brilliant! Do you think anyone will fall for it, though?


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 10/31/2008 12:12:38
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2008 :  12:14:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by H. Humbert

Therefore, YOU must understand completely how this process works to be able to replicate it. And it is a patented process in this system, so I cannot divulge the exact processes involved.
That right there is pretty awesome in its sheer stupidity. "You can't criticize my process unless you understand how it works. But I'm not going to tell you how it works, therefore I am immune from criticism." Brilliant! Do you think anyone will fall for it, though?


Find a Bedini motor forum and you will find out the answer.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25977 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2008 :  13:58:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally quoted by Robb

And it is a patented process in this system, so I cannot divulge the exact processes involved.
This is the sign of a true scam artist at work.

A patent specifically puts "the exact processes" into the public record. A patent is the polar opposite of a trade secret.

Anyone who claims that a patent means that they cannot divulge the secrets is someone who is interested in nothing more than emptying your wallet.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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perrodetokio
Skeptic Friend

275 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2008 :  14:10:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send perrodetokio a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If itīs patented technology wouldnīt they be able to make it public without fear of being stolen?

Cheers!

"Yes I have a belief in a creator/God but do not know that he exists." Bill Scott

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2008 :  16:16:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thane? Is that you?




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


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Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9666 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2008 :  18:10:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Robb

A bedini motor and circuit claims to drive a DC pulse motor with a lead acid battery and charge another lead acid battery and the overall effect is an efficiency above 100%. From this site:

http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=554

Signs of a scam:

Excellent work Robb!


(I really mean that!)


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
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"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

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Collateralmurder.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2008 :  19:18:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great find of a truly classic scam, Robb!

And clearly, it is a scam as such, a plot to get "development" money from suckers, not an innocent error by an electrical amateur, or even an "honest" crank. I conclude that because of all the items you pointed out, all geared to confuse suckers and defend the scam long enough to raise money, and none of which make any sense to anyone who has worked with electromechanical devices.

And always throw in Tesla, to imply class, and mystery.

We are cautioned to forget "standard electronic theory" when considering this device. That would be Ohm's Law, I suppose. (I=V/R, where I = current in Amperes, V = potential in Volts, and R = resistance in Ohms.) I wonder what new and wonderful equation this inventor has, to substitute for boring old Ohm's Law? Perhaps that formula is "patented" also, and thus a secret?




Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/31/2008 19:19:12
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25977 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2008 :  22:41:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by perrodetokio

If itīs patented technology wouldnīt they be able to make it public without fear of being stolen?
Nonono, it's much worse than that. To get a patent, you are required to make it public. Only then can you say that someone else is stealing your ideas (because you patented it first).

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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ktesibios
SFN Regular

USA
505 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2008 :  10:39:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send ktesibios a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally quoted by Robb

And it is a patented process in this system, so I cannot divulge the exact processes involved.
This is the sign of a true scam artist at work.

A patent specifically puts "the exact processes" into the public record. A patent is the polar opposite of a trade secret.

Anyone who claims that a patent means that they cannot divulge the secrets is someone who is interested in nothing more than emptying your wallet.


Exactly right. The essence of a patent is that in return for a limited-time legally enforceable monopoly on the use of the invention the inventor must disclose how to make it so that when the patent expires the invention becomes part of humanity's general store of useful knowledge.

Now it is possible to fudge this- for example, during the First World War a number of US patents for commercial dyestuff processes belonging to the I.G. Farben cartel were seized by the Alien Property Custodian. During the war Dupont tried, with government encouragement, to go into production of these dyestuffs, and found that they couldn't do it. The patents had been so carefully drawn that they satisfied the Patent Office without disclosing some critical "know-how". Irenee du Pont, the president of Dupont at the time, later wrote "we couldn't work them. They were drawn for Germans who had spent their lives in the dyestuff industry. An ordinary chemist couldn't work them." Dupont ultimately kickstarted a dyestuff business after the war by recruiting some of Farben's chemists, who had to be smuggled out of Germany in an entertainingly cloak-and-dagger fashion. You can read about it in Joseph Borkin's book The Crime and Punishment of IG Farben

About the "electronic theory" thing- that Bedini invokes the name of Tom Bearden shows that it isn't Ohm's Law or Kirchoff's Laws that he discounts, although I've seen woos who couldn't get a DC circuit analysis (which depends on using Ohm and KIrchoff) right to save their lives. Bearden is a crackpot who believes that Maxwell's equations, at least in their modern form, are wrong and that if you just change your mathematical way of looking at electromagnetics you can not only get free energy but also build death rays that can shoot down a Space Shuttle and cause earthquakes. Eric Kreig and a Canadian physicist name Shaun Bishop have taken his claims apart pretty thoroughly. A search of phact.org on Bearden's name might turn up some instructive stuff.


"The Republican agenda is to turn the United States into a third-world shithole." -P.Z.Myers
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2008 :  11:55:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good job on analysing the frauder Robb!

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2008 :  14:51:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Am I the only one that sees it is almost 5 years old (post on the page)?

AM I missing something?

The Circus of Carnage... because you should be able to deal with politicians like you do pissant noobs.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2008 :  11:23:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Original_Intent

Am I the only one that sees it is almost 5 years old (post on the page)?

AM I missing something?
So the motor must be in general production and use by now, right?


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Robb
SFN Regular

USA
1223 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2008 :  11:55:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Robb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I built one of these motors last weekend and got it running after frying two transistors. I will let you know when I get overunity out of it (unless the oil companies buy me out or worse).

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2008 :  12:21:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you get overunity, I'll buy one off ya :P

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25977 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2008 :  12:44:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Been nice knowing you, Robb. Pity about the jackbooted thugs who are soon to appear.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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