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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
 Posted - 11/14/2008 : 19:09:25
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Apparently; the Obama have privately started enquiries about whereas she'd accept a post as secretary of state.
That's not that much of a surprise frankly, she have been so active on Obama's behalf during the last months of the elections, helping unifying the dems behind his candidature, that a back scratching was not unexpected... The deal might even have been dealt with under the table after the primaries (you remember this secret meeting between the two?).
Not that surprising then... But what happened to change?
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
 Posted - 11/14/2008 : 19:52:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Apparently; the Obama have privately started enquiries about whereas she'd accept a post as secretary of state.
That's not that much of a surprise frankly, she have been so active on Obama's behalf during the last months of the elections, helping unifying the dems behind his candidature, that a back scratching was not unexpected... The deal might even have been dealt with under the table after the primaries (you remember this secret meeting between the two?).
Not that surprising then... But what happened to change?
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I'm not sure what your objection is. She's a second term and junior Senator from New York. If John Kerry were nominated (as there is much talk about this) would that be "change" or not? |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 20:18:01 [Permalink]
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she is still pretty much a Washington insiders, though.
I don't care, myself, but I would not equate her to change... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 22:29:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
she is still pretty much a Washington insiders, though. |
If you really want to see no change at all, become the president elect and choose a cabinet that is from the outside, mostly. In that way, you will not surround yourself with people who know how to work Washington and you will hit the ground stumbling, as Clinton did. Or worse, lack the advice to know how to get along with your own party, as Carter did.
Here's the deal. Obama is the boss.
This insider/outsider business is just campaign rhetoric that means nothing but appeals to voters because all voters think they are getting screwed by everyone else's representative's in Washington. Not their own because they usually vote their own back into office.
Obama is a United States senator. Sure, he has only been there for three years but Sarah Palin is much more of an outsider, if you see what I mean... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 23:07:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Here's the deal. Obama is the boss. |
Exactly. That's the change. Obama is the new captain of this ship. It doesn't mean he has to enlist a crew of inexperienced landlubbers. We're still sailing into new waters.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 11/14/2008 23:12:23 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 23:18:01 [Permalink]
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The "change" is going to come when Obama reverses and undoes a bunch of Bush's policies. Thats how I understood him anyway.
I don't ever recall Obama saying he was going to bring in a pack of no-names with no government experience... imagine the clusterfuck THAT would be... Oh, wait, no need, just see the last eight years of political cronyism.
To answer the question from the OP let me just pose another question: How would Hillary NOT be different than W?
He has to have some key players come from the current old-school dems. No way can he afford to alienate them right now. The challenge will be placating them without giving up too much. I think he knows exactly who he is going to invite to cabinet positions. I'd bet the list was made quite some time ago. Obama strikes me as a guy with a plan and so far the will to implement it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2008 : 09:43:02 [Permalink]
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I will never be allowed to be elected... I was not born in the US.
Seriously; I mostly agree with you guys. I personally dislike the anti-Washington rhetoric we heard during the campaign, because it smells of popularism and anti-intellectualism.
But I'd still though I would bring up this apparent disconnect between campaign rhetoric and what we have seen thus far. Because fair is fair. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2008 : 11:00:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
I will never be allowed to be elected... I was not born in the US.
Seriously; I mostly agree with you guys. I personally dislike the anti-Washington rhetoric we heard during the campaign, because it smells of popularism and anti-intellectualism.
But I'd still though I would bring up this apparent disconnect between campaign rhetoric and what we have seen thus far. Because fair is fair.
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Yes, but I don't recall Obama saying that what change meant to him was staffing from the outside in favor of those who are considered experts in both the politics of Washington and, say, foreign affairs.
I will not be shocked if he chooses a prominent Republican to be on his staff too, because he promised to reach across the isle.
Over and over he said we need Change from what we have had for the last eight years, and a return to a more bottom up economic policy, which means a more progressive tax structure, with increased regulations and a return to improved relations with our allies by not pursuing an unrealistic foreign policy that has harmed our standing in the world.
Those were the changes that I heard him talk about. Fair is fair... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2008 : 11:34:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by Simon
I will never be allowed to be elected... I was not born in the US.
Seriously; I mostly agree with you guys. I personally dislike the anti-Washington rhetoric we heard during the campaign, because it smells of popularism and anti-intellectualism.
But I'd still though I would bring up this apparent disconnect between campaign rhetoric and what we have seen thus far. Because fair is fair.
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Yes, but I don't recall Obama saying that what change meant to him was staffing from the outside in favor of those who are considered experts in both the politics of Washington and, say, foreign affairs.
I will not be shocked if he chooses a prominent Republican to be on his staff too, because he promised to reach across the isle.
Over and over he said we need Change from what we have had for the last eight years, and a return to a more bottom up economic policy, which means a more progressive tax structure, with increased regulations and a return to improved relations with our allies by not pursuing an unrealistic foreign policy that has harmed our standing in the world.
Those were the changes that I heard him talk about. Fair is fair...
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That's how I took it as well. Change compared to what we've had for the last eight years. Not wholesale change.
You need people who know their way around Washington and more importantly, someone in the lead position who might actually have some sort of game plan. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2008 : 17:14:34 [Permalink]
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Ok; maybe. Certainly the GOP used the 'change' term to. Except that part of their (confuse) rhetoric was a rejection of Washington.
It might be that I conflated both definition of change somewhat. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2008 : 17:20:55 [Permalink]
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| My impression was that the Obama camp wanted to make Hillary look like something that wasn't change when they were running against her. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2008 : 19:37:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
My impression was that the Obama camp wanted to make Hillary look like something that wasn't change when they were running against her.
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It worked too, didn't it? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Hillary: secretary of state?
