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 Spineless, sniveling Democrats & Lieberman
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2008 :  12:56:36  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, that's it. Back-stabbing Lieberman gets to keep his chair, and I'm sorry I had to vote a straight Democrat ticket this year. Of course, the Republican alternative was out of the question, but the degree is shrinking.

Corporate panderers or political pussies; some choice, eh?

NOTE: The comments fizzled out, right when you wanted to let loose about Lieberman. They should be back now, give them a try: 105 Comments.

Disgusting.

"Some of the things people have said I said of Senator Obama are simply not true."

Lying weasel to the end.

Maybe we don't need those extra Senate seats in Alaska, Minnesota and Georgia. I mean, I'd love for Begich, Franken and Martin to win, but what's the point? Why bust our asses for these guys, for the party, when people like LIeberman, who actually campaigned AGAINST some of these guys, are rewarded for their betrayal? It's becoming increasingly clear that the current crop of Democrats are genetically incapable of showing, or growing, a spine. The only way to get anything in this party is to publicly betray the party, to beat the living crap out of them, to stick the knife in deep and twist. Lesson duly noted.



"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2008 :  14:02:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lieberman has clearly shown himself to be a shameless opportunist, happy to leave the DNC for a chance at being a VP on the GOP ticket. One that now crawls back to his party because it is key to more power.
Pretty shameful behaviour and I hope that Connecticut voters refuse to be represented by such a self-serving hypocrite in the future.


But, as far as the DNC is concerned, I agree with their decision.
It is not desirable to punish dissent and everybody should feel free to express his opinion without fearing retribution. I don't want Obama to fire everybody around him that disagree with him and to only keep yes-men. We have had 8 years of that, and it does not make for good governance!

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2008 :  14:34:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know, it bothered me that Lieberman endorsed McCain and gave that speech at the Republican National Convention. But given that he and McCain are chums, and they agree on Iraq, I didn't get all twisted about it. What really pissed me off was when Lieberman endorsed Republican candidates for congress. Not his friends, but other Republicans in close races!!!

I understand why he gets to keep his seat. It's politics. And no Simon, it's not about free expression or dissent. It's about who he caucuses with on most issues. That and they would like to not get into a pissing match with the Republicans over it. They will need some Republican votes to get things done without a 60 seat majority. It's as simple as that.

But I will be darned if I wouldn't put a whoopy cushion on his seat every time he stood up and wasn't looking. I would fuck with that guys head, which just happens to be lodged very far up his ass, every chance I got...

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2008 :  14:46:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I understand it, too. But it sorta makes me think of living with a mamba loose in the house. I wonder where he'll stand at the first, Republican filibuster of beneficial legislation.

I guess treachery ever has it's rewards. It has been thus throughhout history.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2008 :  18:33:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Kil; I am not sure if the Dems are necessarily more his friends than the Reps... Personal relationship and so on.

Well, I am sure that you could imagine; in some specific cases; preferring a Republican to a Democrats. Maybe it just came out that all the close race were just such cases.
Obviously, that's difficult to believe but he...

What I meant was not really about freedom of expression. It just, that I'd like politician to vote and act according to what they think is the best way to go, not adhere to the party line if it contradicts his principle.
I agree that Lieberman's conduct was more a matter of opportunism that principles but I don't think it 'da party' call to make...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2008 :  20:32:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Reading that Obama may have lobbied for Lieberman to keep his chair, so (if true) he now owes Obama. If they kick him he'd just cross over to the republican caucus anyway.

Of course, republicans would have said screw it and booted his ass if the situation were reversed.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2008 :  21:02:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Beside the personal stuff; if we look at the issues; street wisdom suggests that Lieberman often votes liberal on internal policies and Conservative on foreign issues.

Most the issues today are internal ones, so it makes sense for the dems to keep him.
Foreign issues do exist of course, Iraq and Afghanistan foremost among them, but may not be as pressing on Obama's mind. Plus, the road seems pretty straightforward so far (reduced presence in Iraq with return to Afghanistan and work alongside the Pakistani authorities to weed out the talibans there)...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2008 :  21:56:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In the past, "bipartisanship" has often meant the Dems rolling over like good puppies for whatever evil agenda the Bush administration wanted to cram down the throats of the American public. But I get the sense that Obama really does want to build consensus now because he wants to accomplish big things during his term. Things he doesn't want hampered by petty factional squabbling. Yes, I thought he should have made an example of Lieberman at first. But as others have pointed out, by saving Lieberman's ass, Obama has now made him his bitch. Now I just want to see what Obama's going to call this favor in on. It had better been worth it. I'm waiting until I see before I pass judgment.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2008 :  12:05:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's a good argument H.H.

Also, I am sadly not holding my breath for the GOP to appeal to bi-partisanship and 'putting the country first' now that they are the opposition. I think they are going to be the worst uncooperative filibustering bastards one can imagine.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2008 :  14:47:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

That's a good argument H.H.

Also, I am sadly not holding my breath for the GOP to appeal to bi-partisanship and 'putting the country first' now that they are the opposition. I think they are going to be the worst uncooperative filibustering bastards one can imagine.
Eventually that will probably happen, but not right off. They just got their asses kicked and they know that if they are seen as obstructing policy or not taking part in across the isle discussions and compromises, they will get their asses kicked again.

I don't think they will hand Obama a blank check, but I do think they will play along for a while. One thing this election made clear. People are sick of congressional gridlock (even if that's just a perception) and political posturing. The Republicans lost the suburbs which means that moderate Republicans turned away from them. The only way to get them back is to become more moderate.

Digging in at this time would be political suicide.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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The Rat
SFN Regular

Canada
1342 Posts

Posted - 11/24/2008 :  22:23:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit The Rat's Homepage Send The Rat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I suspect this is simply one of the oldest political tactics around - Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.

You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II

Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 11/25/2008 :  03:22:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by The Rat

I suspect this is simply one of the oldest political tactics around - Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.
But watch the bastards, watch them closely.






"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend

USA
427 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2008 :  01:54:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Mycroft a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really don't understand the anger directed against Lieberman. Isn't it a good thing, overall, to have politicians who don't consider their party membership as the first and last word on their decisions? Wouldn't we benefit if more of our representatives were able to think outside of party lines? Isn't the ability to think independently important even if you disagree with what the person is thinking?

More to the point, a lot of Republicans endorsed Obama this last time around. Wouldn't we rightfully heap scorn upon the Republican party if they were to punish those who crossed the isle?
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2008 :  11:33:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with you actually.

I think that the reason as to why so many people are angry at Lieberman is that he didn't think 'outside of the party lines' as much as saw a personal opportunity for him (McCain wanted him as a VP until he deciding that placating the Religious Right was more urgent) and saw no qualms in screwing up his so-called friends for his own sake...

As for the Republicans, quite a few of them did actually react negatively to their member that endorsing Obama, calling Colin Powell a racist and such...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13462 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2008 :  11:59:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Mycroft

I really don't understand the anger directed against Lieberman. Isn't it a good thing, overall, to have politicians who don't consider their party membership as the first and last word on their decisions? Wouldn't we benefit if more of our representatives were able to think outside of party lines? Isn't the ability to think independently important even if you disagree with what the person is thinking?

More to the point, a lot of Republicans endorsed Obama this last time around. Wouldn't we rightfully heap scorn upon the Republican party if they were to punish those who crossed the isle?
And it takes plenty of Democrats to elect a Republican president. It wasn't his endorsement of McCain that riled most Democrats. That was just annoying. It was his campaigning for Republicans in close races with Democrats for congress that pissed us off. You know, he endorsed some people he didn't even know, as opposed to McCain who is his friend. If he did it because of his friendship for McCain, he deserves our contempt.

Perhaps he should explain himself? If he has, I missed it...


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend

USA
427 Posts

Posted - 11/28/2008 :  17:16:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Mycroft a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon
I agree with you actually.

I think that the reason as to why so many people are angry at Lieberman is that he didn't think 'outside of the party lines' as much as saw a personal opportunity for him (McCain wanted him as a VP until he deciding that placating the Religious Right was more urgent) and saw no qualms in screwing up his so-called friends for his own sake...


I'm highly skeptical that Lieberman was motivated by a desire to be nominated as a Republican VP. That kind of stuff may be fun to talk about if you're a political pundit with some air-time to fill, but the reality of a bipartisan presidential ticket is so far outside the realm of likelihood as not to be taken seriously.

Edited to add:

It seems to me that Lieberman's actions and politics are entirely consistent with his stated politics. He's quoted as saying, "I agree more often than not with Democrats on domestic policy. I agree more often than not with Republicans on foreign and defense policy."


Originally posted by Simon
As for the Republicans, quite a few of them did actually react negatively to their member that endorsing Obama, calling Colin Powell a racist and such...


You're talking about Rush Limbaugh, right? I agree, that was way out of line.
Edited by - Mycroft on 11/28/2008 17:23:52
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