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 Did UK remove the holocaust from history books?
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 12/08/2008 :  21:15:26  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So... from the guy that brought you (well, me) the chain letter about the Christian foundation of the US came another email...

This time the email was linking to a lovely powerpoint (titled: 'it seems impossible')it was about how the UK had removed the holocaust from their history class. You know, to appease to these evil muslims.

Anyway, here is my answer:
It seems impossible and, indeed, it thankfully is.



So there, I suspect that at some point he will remove me from his email list for not playing well with others... until then; the fight must go on!

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996

HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2008 :  03:30:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What??? You mean all those unsolicited emails I get aren't Gospel?

Seriously, thanks for checking this one out. It's bad enough that Sharia law is being allowed in Britain. And that one ain't an urban legend.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2008 :  09:09:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
WTF! Is it?


How, good, after checking that up it does not seem to be true either; yet.

I found that article, but the subject is about an immigrant community which takes care of matter on its own according to traditions without being sanctioned by the government. Which is a far cry from the system accommodating such laws.


Now, for civil matters, things that could be reach through an agreement, like divorces, inheritance, I have no problem about people asking a consultation to Islamic law specialists to learn and settling for what the Sharia would say.
But, that is something that can, and probably do, happen already without need for modifying the ancient and venerable system of English justice.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2008 :  11:45:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They are allowing self-government so long as their punishments dont conflict with the laws of the land, as far as I know, no stonings allowed.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2008 :  15:18:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Actually, Sharia law is there, as a "voluntary option." That means if a woman, for instance, can be bullied into accepting the tender justice of a theocratic mullah, she can be stuck with his (always "his") decision. True, it's not (yet) full-blown, mandatory Sharia law. But the Brits are letting it creep in, and that's a first rate crime in itself. It has no place in Britain.

Pat Condell certainly believes Sharia law is in Britain, and doesn't like it.

Edited to add this link, in which England and Wales' top judge argues for Sharia.

And again, added this link. A minority -- but a significant one (40%) -- of Muslims in Britain wanted Sharia law there, when the poll was taken a couple of years ago.

This link is to a BBC article titled, "The end of one law for all?"

Also, British mullah Shaykh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi is the highest representative of "mainline" Muslim organizations in Britain. He promotes Sharia law in Britain. According to what this mild-seeming, smiling, and joking man says in this video, stonings and the like are apparently "not draconian." Bull. Shit.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 12/09/2008 17:25:21
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2008 :  20:23:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah; reading the BBC article, it is mostly as I envisaged:


This is because under English law people may devise their own way to settle a dispute before an agreed third party.

Crucially, the legislation does not insist that settlements must be based on English law; all that matters is the outcome is reasonable and both parties agree to the process. And it's in this space that religious courts, applying the laws of another culture, are growing in the UK.


Basically, people are free to reach an agreement before meeting in court and if the agreement seems legal and reasonable, the court will ratify it regardless of whether the parties reached this agreement based on Islamic tradition, reading from tea leaves or channelling of PZ Myers.

It'd seem acceptable to me, provided as people keep an eye on these courts to make sure that they are, indeed, fair.

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2008 :  20:58:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Simon

Yeah; reading the BBC article, it is mostly as I envisaged:


This is because under English law people may devise their own way to settle a dispute before an agreed third party.

Crucially, the legislation does not insist that settlements must be based on English law; all that matters is the outcome is reasonable and both parties agree to the process. And it's in this space that religious courts, applying the laws of another culture, are growing in the UK.


Basically, people are free to reach an agreement before meeting in court and if the agreement seems legal and reasonable, the court will ratify it regardless of whether the parties reached this agreement based on Islamic tradition, reading from tea leaves or channelling of PZ Myers.

It'd seem acceptable to me, provided as people keep an eye on these courts to make sure that they are, indeed, fair.

It's not acceptable to me. Justice ought to be secular. The mullah mentioned in the video that the Sharia courts were dealing in some cases with "real crimes." One issue that the Sharia court supporters want to deal with is that of forced marriage. I especially don't trust Islamists to deal fairly with that.

IMO, Britain has begun a process of shattering and theocracizing their justice system. The worst kind of governmental legitimization of "faith-based" sell-out, all based upon the false idea that this is "culturally sensitive" and "anti-racist." It is no such thing -- instead, it illustrates the weirdly twisted ideology of the Labor Party, which has abandoned its principles and is embracing the most primitive and brutal major "legal system" in the world.

Also, please note that Sharia law is only supported by about a 40% minority of British Muslims. Many of the others may have fled their native lands to get away from Sharia.

I would never abide a similar thing happening in the US, such as allowing "Christian courts" to pass judgment. No good will come of this. This is crazy. The fact that Muslims are a minority in Britain doesn't make theocracy a proper agenda for the "Left" or anyone else.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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UniConst
New Member

15 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2008 :  08:25:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send UniConst a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"It seems impossible and, indeed, it thankfully is."

Ah, Simon, me lad. Am highly skeptical of your "impossible".

But if GB/UK did indeed do such an incredible thing, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. ()

The Universe is not constant.
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Simon
SFN Regular

USA
1992 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2008 :  09:26:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Simon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Removing the holocaust from history books?
As much of a political suicide in UK than it would be in the US.

Having a majority of politicians voluntarily sacrificing their career? Just about as close from impossible as it can get without altering the laws of thermodynamics.


As for the Sharia; I don't think that the courts themselves are specially 'muslimized'. The decisions are still given by a secular court of law, according to the secular laws of Britain.
But, these laws state that, if both side of a legal argument reach an agreement, the court will try to go with it. Regardless off the basis on which that agreement was based...

Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996
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