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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 06/29/2009 : 08:00:36
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You remember this guy, right? What would happen if one asked HIM about atheism? As you could guess, something along these lines is the result.
Richard Dawkins was asked about rape during an interview:
Justin Brierley (JB): If we had evolved into a society where rape was considered fine, would that mean that rape is fine?
Richard Dawkins (RD): I, I wouldn't, I don't want to answer that question. It, it, it's enough for me to say that we live in a society where it's not considered fine. We live in a society where uhm, selfishness, where failure to pay your debts, failure to reciprocate favors is, is, is regarded askance. That is the society in which we live. I'm very glad, that's a value judgment, I'm very glad that I live in such a society.
JB: When you make a value judgment don't you immediately step yourself outside of this evolutionary process and say that the reason this is good is that it's good. And you don't have any way to stand on that statement.
RD: My value judgment itself could come from my evolutionary past.
JB: So therefore it's just as random in a sense as any product of evolution.
RD: You could say that, it doesn't in any case, nothing about it makes it more probable that there is anything supernatural.
JB: Ultimately, your belief that rape is wrong is as arbitrary as the fact that we've evolved five fingers rather than six.
RD: You could say that, yeah.40 |
| Atheists such as Richard Dawkins have trouble finding logical reasons to denounce rape as unacceptable behavior |
Look at the size of that article. And look at what he's got in it! Holy Quote Mine, Batman!
Ok, I don't have time right now to check up on that quote, much less any of the others, but I think I can tell you this about Mariano's ploy here: Is it not the Fallacy of Appealling to Consequences of a Belief? Even if all the stuff he's posted above is in context and is what Dawkins believes: What does that have to do with the truth or falseness of atheism?
Nothing more than appealing to people's emotions to make them want to disbelieve atheism more.
With lots of nice quotes to make it look like he's actually presenting evidence against it.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
Edited by - the_ignored on 06/29/2009 08:48:01
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2009 : 18:35:59 [Permalink]
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I will believe those quotes are in context when I see them IN context.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 06/29/2009 : 18:57:35 [Permalink]
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I listened to the audio of that interview. Here's my take:
Bear in mind that Dawkins was apparently ambushed by Justin Brierley just after his long debate with John Lennox. Dawkins does seem both tired and quite irritated at Brierley, and several times uses the phrase "you could say that" somewhat as a way of brushing off Brierley's comments. Unfortunately, Dawkins' fatigue and irritation conspired to make one of his uses of that phrase sound like an agreement with Brierley about rape.
Here's the audio of the Lennox/Dawkins debate itself.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/29/2009 19:06:29 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 05:14:31 [Permalink]
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| Yeah Dawkins really should have played the Biblical "as long as they get married afterward" card. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 06:13:52 [Permalink]
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| JB: Ultimately, your belief that rape is wrong is as arbitrary as the fact that we've evolved five fingers rather than six. |
Ultimately, JB's belief that rape is wrong is as arbitrary as his choice of god to worship... |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/30/2009 : 06:45:47 [Permalink]
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Dawkins' response should have been,"Rape is not acceptable behavior under any circumstances because it trampled the rights and usurps privacy of the individual, not to mention the physical damage."
Now that's easy for me to say because I'm just sitting here swilling tea and under no pressure. I have time to think about it, although it didn't require very much.
And that is exactly why verbal debates are a crock mostly intended for the amusement of an audience. But if we must have them, it's about time that atheists began laying snide, little traps of their own.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 07:33:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Dawkins' response should have been,"Rape is not acceptable behavior under any circumstances because it trampled the rights and usurps privacy of the individual, not to mention the physical damage."
Now that's easy for me to say because I'm just sitting here swilling tea and under no pressure. I have time to think about it, although it didn't require very much.
And that is exactly why verbal debates are a crock mostly intended for the amusement of an audience. But if we must have them, it's about time that atheists began laying snide, little traps of their own. |
But the answer from the apologetist would have been: "And why isn't it not acceptable to trample the rights and usurp privacy of the individual, or cause him/her the physical damage, if I want to".
Ultimately, Darwin is right, moral and empathy are a product of our evolution. What the apologetic got wrong is that Evolution is not random or arbitrary... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 09:00:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Originally posted by filthy
Dawkins' response should have been,"Rape is not acceptable behavior under any circumstances because it trampled the rights and usurps privacy of the individual, not to mention the physical damage."
Now that's easy for me to say because I'm just sitting here swilling tea and under no pressure. I have time to think about it, although it didn't require very much.
And that is exactly why verbal debates are a crock mostly intended for the amusement of an audience. But if we must have them, it's about time that atheists began laying snide, little traps of their own. |
But the answer from the apologetist would have been: "And why isn't it not acceptable to trample the rights and usurp privacy of the individual, or cause him/her the physical damage, if I want to".
Ultimately, Darwin is right, moral and empathy are a product of our evolution. What the apologetic got wrong is that Evolution is not random or arbitrary...
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Well there is nothing stopping anyone from trampling left and rights, it really comes down to self preservation. If it were a 'randomized anarchy' there is nothing stopping the rape or the retaliation killing of the rapist. |
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Mariano, the atheism "expert". Hoo boy...
