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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 07:53:46 [Permalink]
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Interesting, I thought that the Hell's Angels had some sort of racist ideology.
I know that you Filthy ain't racist so that surprised me to learn you appartenance in this club.
As for your friend, I guess that, provided he is not going to side with Ken Ham and show the atheists the "errors of their ways", an unlikely behaviour since, after all, you two guys are still friends, his presence would be all the more welcome. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/21/2009 : 13:27:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Interesting, I thought that the Hell's Angels had some sort of racist ideology.
I know that you Filthy ain't racist so that surprised me to learn you appartenance in this club.
As for your friend, I guess that, provided he is not going to side with Ken Ham and show the atheists the "errors of their ways", an unlikely behaviour since, after all, you two guys are still friends, his presence would be all the more welcome.
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I spent a good part of this morning trying to pound the meaning of all of this through Sonny's thick, titanium skull. He's under the impression that it's some sort of anti-Christian protest and has trouble grasping that it's merely a lot of pencil-necked academics coming out of curiosity, and to chuckle at Ham's hock.
Hell's Angels..... What you've got to understand, and few do, is that they aren't racists as others might think of it. They are tribal, alienated from everybody who is not another Angel, or at least a long-time friend. They are highly territorial and will defend that territory with whatever it takes, and thus, you hear about biker killings every now and then. This holds true for all of the 1% clubs. I'm too old now, but back in the day I was offered a prospect for Angel by the San Bernardino Chapter, after leaving the service, of course. I had been transferred to the West Coast and prior to shipping out for Subic, was riding with them. We drank a lot of beer, smoked a lot of weed, and generally had a good time. I made their Bass Lake Run that year (around '62 or '63). I got to know some of their charter members, mostly WWII vets. I had just dropped out of another, smaller, local club that was going to get quite large in the future, and wasn't interested in joining another.
Long story short: it's the territorial thing that puts me off. As I am now, I can ride through any club's territory with impunity -- I couldn't do that wearing colors. That ended up being the reason I dropped out of my latest M/C. I no longer need the hassle, but we're still friends
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 15:15:36 [Permalink]
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When I got out of the Navy in 1967, I spent many a day doing anti-war leafleting at the Oakland Induction Center for the UC chapter of SDS. I often encountered Hells Angels there. Contrary to my expectations of finding them to be racist, right-wing thugs, I had very nice chats with them. Of course, it helped that I was a guy who has never thought himself superior to others. I've always been able to talk with most people as something close to a peer. I did find the Angels I met somewhat ignorant, but not stupid, and certainly not hostile to me.
[Edit: Grammar, my old nemesis.] |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/21/2009 21:43:38 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 16:46:06 [Permalink]
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I might add that any community with an Angel's clubhouse is mostly street crime free. They won't stand for it that close to home and their rep alone discourages it. This rep is the real deal. Piss them off and the results will be very ugly. But as 'mooner notes; they also like to get along with their 'civilian' neighbors. They learned long ago that this pays in less official attention.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 19:36:24 [Permalink]
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Well... The more you know.
Interesting stuff.
So? Is your friend going finally?
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 01:51:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Well... The more you know.
Interesting stuff.
So? Is your friend going finally?
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Don't know yet. It's still not 100% certain than I'm going myself. I'm still worried about Phillip's head injury and now he's fallen into a depression, which is to be expected, but he's not riding it out well. We'll just have to wait & see.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 07:50:02 [Permalink]
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A depression?
Hmmm, that sucks.
But if it is a bona fide depression, it will take months to "ride out" so the fact that he is not out of it yet is nothing to be worried about.
I do hope he gets better soon though. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 08:04:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
A depression?
Hmmm, that sucks.
But if it is a bona fide depression, it will take months to "ride out" so the fact that he is not out of it yet is nothing to be worried about.
I do hope he gets better soon though.
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Depression goes with the territory on these things. And, as that injury is still fresh, worse can happen. Also, the eye is not showing much change, even with the swelling down. I've recommended that he read a bit and try to exercise the muscles. And wear a patch if he walks around outside to remedy the split vision. Then he can say; Arrrr! a lot and pester his mother for a parrot.
Anyhow, it's still wait & see.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 10:38:31 [Permalink]
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I had an idea, Filthy. I'm kind of an isolated soul here, so I will leave it to you to consider the logistics, practicality, ethics, etc.
Is there any way that the word could get out that the Angels and the Mongols are finally going to have their international showdown at the Creation Museum?
Again, you know the situation better than I, so I'll go with your decision.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/22/2009 : 12:06:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
I had an idea, Filthy. I'm kind of an isolated soul here, so I will leave it to you to consider the logistics, practicality, ethics, etc.
Is there any way that the word could get out that the Angels and the Mongols are finally going to have their international showdown at the Creation Museum?
Again, you know the situation better than I, so I'll go with your decision.
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Well, it's a thought. The down side of it is that both clubs might hear of it and show up ready to rock. Also I think that part of Ohio/Kentucky is largely Pagan territory -- I could be wrong, here; I don't keep track of it anymore, and what with the various club coalitions, these things are apt to change.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/24/2009 : 13:22:54 [Permalink]
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Oh boy!
Zerg the Creation “Museum”!
Category: Creationism
Posted on: July 24, 2009 2:56 PM, by PZ Myers
Did I say 101 atheists were going to the Creation "Museum" four days ago? The updated number is currently at 201, and the Secular Student Alliance is keeping registration open for a while, so you can still get in. This is going to be great — be sure to wear some kind of distinguishingly godless clothing, because I think we'll want a few photos of the place swamped with atheists.
Just the numbers alone are going to make this a great event. Join the mob!
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Now I'm getting a little case of cold feet. I do not like mobs; they tend to draw a lot of unwelcome, official attention. At this point, though, I'm still planning to go if-I-can. The look on Ham's face in the presence of that many reality-based people should be classic.
Phillip is slowly progressing and Otter and I went halves on a used motorscooter so he'll have wheels when he recovers. She sez she might ride it to work until then.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2009 : 12:07:18 [Permalink]
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Update and dire warnings from the Fairy Tales in Genesis folks. It seems that PZ's group is going to be welcomed with something less than open arms. I expected as much.
"Dr. Paul Myers (and the Secular Student Alliance)
Biology Dept.
University of Minnesota-Morris
600 East 4th Street
Morris, MN 56267
Re: Creation Museum Visit - Notice of Policies
Dear Dr. Paul ("P.Z.") Myers and the SSA:
As the Security Manager for the Department of Public Safety at the Answers in Genesis Creation Museum, I am writing in regard to your planned visit to the museum, along with those associated with the group called the Secular Student Alliance, scheduled for August 7, 2009.
The purpose of this letter is to advise you of our standard policies and requirements concerning guest behavior.
Succinctly stated, and posted on signs at a number of locations at the museum premises, is the following notice:
The Creation Museum is private property, an outreach of Answers in Genesis. Guests at the museum are expected to conduct themselves in a polite, respectful manner at all times. Loud, disrespectful, destructive, obscene, or abusive behavior will not be tolerated, and may result in your removal from the premises. Please be courteous to other guests, security personnel, and our staff while you are here. Thank you!
Also, please be advised that vehicles and all packages, bags, and articles may be subject to inspection when on the premises or when entering or leaving the premises.
In reviewing your blog and website at http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula, we have observed a number of hostile, crude, and profane comments that suggest that some in the SSA group may be using your visit as an opportunity to engage in demonstrations, mocking behavior, wearing offensive clothing, or in other conduct that would be offensive to our staff and to other guests. We note, for example, that you have written that you urge the group to wear "godless clothing."
We understand that your group (which you have described as a "horde" or "mob") will consist of over 200 persons, many of whom have posted comments on your Pharyngula blog ridiculing Ken Ham and the Creation Museum, using profane language, and some are indicating that it is their intent to conduct themselves in a manner that is provocative, overtly homosexual in behavior, or otherwise socially unacceptable for guests of this privately owned Christian facility. As I'm sure you're aware, some of those statements reference intentions to be "loud" and also to wear "armbands" and T-shirts or other clothing with images or wording that would be considered offensive to our staff and others at the museum. Such conduct will not be tolerated.
The Creation Museum is a privately owned facility; there is no legal right to engage in demonstrations, to harass or insult other guests, staff members, or speakers, or to otherwise engage in conduct that would be disruptive or rude. Again, such actions will not be permitted.
So long as you and the SSA group are willing to abide by our policies requiring civil behavior at all times, to include being respectful of others and of our facilities, then you will be welcome as our guests; but if you do not intend to abide by these policies, then please cancel your visit to the Creation Museum.
We request your acknowledgment of receipt of this letter and your agreement to abide by these policies.
We note that, unlike the exchanges posted on the Pharyngula site, communications from Lyz Laddell of the Secular Student Alliance have generally been polite and respectful, which we appreciate.
We remain willing to host you and the SSA group, provided you assure us that your party will remain civil and abide by our policies and that you have addressed those who have expressed contrary intentions for their visit. We request the courtesy of receiving your written response prior to your arrival. If we do not receive your written assurance that your party will abide by our policies, we will have no choice but to turn your group away at the entrance.
Sincerely,
David Blaylock
Security Manager
Department of Public Safety
cc: John Pence, Esq."
In all truth, I don't find that unreasonable. Anyone who acts like a neo-conservative Republican asshole should be treated accordingly and tossed out.
I'm still uncertain about going. Now, it's mainly $$$ and a health problem. But I'm tryin'.
Edit: Phillip is about the same. I'm going down there tomorrow morning. Otter is delighted with the scooter, using it back and forth to work and saving something like $4.00 daily in gas money. Guess we're going to have to get another ride for Phillip. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 07/28/2009 12:24:20 |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2009 : 10:19:43 [Permalink]
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| Sounds reasonable to me, if they want to stage a "protest" they should do it outside the gates. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Tipok
New Member
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 18:14:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Landrew
There's something about "creation science" that I don't understand:
If they start with a conclusion, and then work backwards, gathering evidence and rationale to support it, how is that "science?"
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"The investigation of natural phenomena through observation, theoretical explanation, and experimentation, or the knowledge produced by such investigation." http://www.thefreedictionary.com/science
There's nothing wrong with starting with a conclusion and working backwards as long as it is possible and has evidence to support it.
Hiding and manipulating evidence to support a theory, on the other hand, is not very scientific at all. |
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I don’t think I can make it to this…
