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knightmare
New Member
USA
42 Posts |
 Posted - 07/10/2009 : 17:21:30
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I have been reading some of the posts about exorcision, creationists, and other religious subjects. It got me thinking of my own experiences with religion over the past few years.
I start in June of 2003, at a very traumatic time in our lives, the death of our daughter. I won't go into a lot of details, just that she had a cancerous tumor near her kidney. The people of the church we attended at the time were very supportive (as was the entire community). As the summer wore on, it seemed that the pastor had read up on the "stages of grieving" and waited for them to appear. When they didn't come in the proper order, he, and others, would try to force them in (mostly on my wife. I was always kind of an outsider). Eventually, things went back to a form of normality, considering our circumstances.
Jump to 2004. One of the men in the church, call him 'John', had sinus surgery that went wrong. He was flown to the OSU medical center, where he laid in a coma like state. He came out of it after a few days (can't remember how long exactly) and when he came home, he was a shinning example of god at work. "God wasn't through with 'John'", the pastor would say, "he's got plans for 'John'". It opened up thoughts of my daughter in my mind. "What about Olivia? That sure was a shitty plan he had for her". Later, 'John' married a woman he had known only weeks, she created a rift between him and the rest of the church, he left, she fooled around on him, they sepaerated, and we never heard from him again. Rumor had it that he moved out of town and started drinking again. "That's quite a plan god had there", I thought. That really got me upset about god and his plans.
Late in 2004, I started attending the church my dad went to before he died. The minister there was the one who loaned me the creationism cassettes I mentioned in one of my first posts. By May/June of the following year, I was done with chuch, religion, and everything associated with it.
I had tried, over the years, to be a faithful christian. They never stuck. Try as I might, I never seemed to fit in with the "church crowd". Between August '04 and May '05, I went to church whenever I could. I was baptized, read the bible every day, prayed, gave money I didn't have, etc. None of this helped me in the day-to-day problems my life was bombarded with at the time. After giving up on religion (for the final time) I got a job and slowly crawled out of the depression I had been in for years. In the summer of '07, my wife lost her job and quit going to church (in that order). We moved to KY in March of '08 and, while we have a way to go financialy, we're as happy as we have ever been. We have a son and for the first time since February '03, I'm working 40+ hours a week.
I'm not quite sure what the moral of the story is, if in fact there is one. I read about children dying while adults try to drive "evil spirits" from them, the burning of women suspected of witchcraft, evangalists scamming people out of their savings with promises of miracle cures and god's blessings, the list goes on. My dad was a good man. He resigned from churches where preaching what the bible said made some of the congregation upset. They wanted to hear how superior they were from the non-religious when they went to church and didn't want to hear that maybe they weren't the good christians they thought they were. He died of cancer in 2000, just shy of his 62nd birthday. Hell of a way for god to treat a devoted disciple.
There was a point during our daughter's stay in the hospital when a problem arose and the doctors didn't know what to do. At what seemed like the last possible moment, they had an idea and it worked. It was then I knew in my heart that god was in control and everything would be alright. A week later, she was gone. The only answer our pastor and the pastor from a sister church could offer was Romans 8:28: "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose" (NKJV). I never could figure out what the good was. Without god, I deal with her death much easier. She got sick and she died. She wasn't the first and she won't be the last child this happens to.
God may offer comfort to those who grieve for lost loved ones but in my case, it didn't. This is what may have started my final journey toward atheism. A six year journey, starting 10 June, 2003 and ending here, 10 July, 2009, with this writing.
I'm posting this here not to gain sympathy, but to put my experience with religion out there for people to see. This seemed like a good place to do that. I think I also had to get these feelings out in the open and tell someone how I feel on the subject. Again, this seemed like a good place. I know a lot of religious people (especially at work) and we get along pretty well. As for religion on the whole, it's a crutch people lean on when they don't want to take responsibility for their own lives.
I'm glad to be here and look forward to learning a lot from the gang at SFN. Sorry this is so long. Thanks for listening.
Laters
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 17:25:09 [Permalink]
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| No problem, glad to have you with us. Rough story, but at least you and your wife seem to have made good. |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 20:58:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by knightmare
Again, this seemed like a good place. |
I'm glad you thought so.| The only answer our pastor and the pastor from a sister church could offer was Romans 8:28: "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose" (NKJV). |
This part, for me, gives solidity to the idea that major religions (well, at least one) are not all that different from New Age spiritualistic stuff like The Secret: just empty platitudes in times of trouble.
And because I feel a big hijack coming on, I'll leave it at that, for now. Welcome aboard, knightmare. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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R.Wreck
SFN Regular
USA
1191 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 21:32:00 [Permalink]
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| Condolences on the loss of your daughter. That you were able to better deal with such a loss without the "comfort" of religion shows that it really does offer no comfort at all if you think about it. |
The foundation of morality is to . . . give up pretending to believe that for which there is no evidence, and repeating unintelligible propositions about things beyond the possibliities of knowledge.
T. H. Huxley
The Cattle Prod of Enlightened Compassion
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 22:19:13 [Permalink]
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Some people might need the comfort of Religion, some people might feel better knowing that, well, shit happen, and that's it, no deep secret behind it.
But, what really matters is that you and your wife seems to be doing better. Congratulation and best of luck for the future!
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2009 : 02:41:56 [Permalink]
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"Hangin' in" is really the best anyone can do in fair weather or foul; it's just that we all have different ways of doing it.
My deepest condolences to you and indeed, to "John" as well.
I have a grand daughter named Olivia and the whole family dotes om her.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2009 : 11:48:47 [Permalink]
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My condolences for your loss. When I lost my mother-in-law to cancer in 2000, I was already out of the church and Christianity since at least 5 years.
Do you still experience flashes of "religious" thinking, like having mental conversations with God or Jesus? Though I can place my decision to turn my back on religion at a specific point in time, the process of freeing my mind from religious indoctrination has taken a lot of time. I'm still not entirely free from it, 15 years after choosing my own path. My answer to those flashes are to balance them with healthy dose of blasphemy.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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knightmare
New Member
USA
42 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2009 : 15:25:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
My condolences for your loss. When I lost my mother-in-law to cancer in 2000, I was already out of the church and Christianity since at least 5 years.
Do you still experience flashes of "religious" thinking, like having mental conversations with God or Jesus? Though I can place my decision to turn my back on religion at a specific point in time, the process of freeing my mind from religious indoctrination has taken a lot of time. I'm still not entirely free from it, 15 years after choosing my own path. My answer to those flashes are to balance them with healthy dose of blasphemy.
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Just this morning at work, I was thinking about what I had written and posted yesterday and was wondering "Am I doing the right thing?" After all, I was raised in the church. My dad was a minister. I usually think about how my feelings about god went from being a young believer, to indifference, to having a lot of faith during a trying time, to sadness and confusion, to hate, to needing help during a time of depression, and then back to hate. Since the only reason for believing in god became the need to feel hatred toward someone, I decided to let go of childish beliefs. Hatred is a negative emotion and by letting go of god, I have a better attitude towards life that I've never had before.
And, as Penn Jillett once said, "The quickest way to become an atheist is to read the damn bible". I think I'll also try that blasphemy remedy you spoke of when those religious thoughts creep in.
Thanks to you and everyone here for the kind words.
Laters |
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Parker Georgy
Spammer
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 04:43:44 [Permalink]
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| [Spam deleted - Dave W.] |
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One man's journey to atheism
