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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 08/29/2009 : 08:10:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
I did acknowledge your contempt for politicians in general Bill. Nice to see it confirmed.
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Well you used a question mark so I just wondered if you doubted me. My bad. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 08:24:16 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| Originally posted by Bill scott |
And I stand by it. Anybody that wagers another persons life for their personal political gain is a coward and a jerk, IMO. |
No, "nothing more than a coward and a jerk," plainly stated. Why are you softening your previous position? |
I stand by that as well. Anyone who wagers another person's life for his political gain is nothing but a coward and a jerk.
| I never said they got blood money from Kennedy. I said that Kennedy gave the family money after the accident, which he did. You can take all the rest of the circumstantial evidence and come to your own conclusion. |
More back-pedaling. When I pointed out that Mary Jo's parents said nice things about Kennedy after her death, your response was, "They were given money," clearly indicating that you think that the family's opinion and integrity could be purchased for $90,000 and change. |
That is innuendo and innuendo ain't evidence. I said Kennedy gave her parents money. The fact is Kennedy gave her parents money. You can come to your own conclusions.
| To think that I am a more moral person for having typed ape$hit over apeshit is laughable. |
That's what I was saying. I think you're a very immoral person. |
I know I am. That is why I am so very grateful that I have a Saviour who is not. A perfect and blameless Advocate who will plead on my behalf.
| But if the dollar-sign was just force-of-habit, no biggie. |
It was. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 08:33:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by the_ignored
I did acknowledge your contempt for politicians in general Bill. Nice to see it confirmed.
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Unfortunately, politicians and politics are a part of the price we pay for democracy. Sometimes we get a pretty good deal with the people we elect -- Kennedy, for example -- but too often we end up with self-serving scumbags interested only in furthering the fortunes of their party, and by extension, themselves, and the rest of the country be damned. So, in the long run, the scumbags slimming their way into office are our fault and ours alone.
Of course, there is a way out of it; a way that we won't have to make tough decisions as to who will lead us. All we have to do is let the church take over the state and all reason for thought will vanish like Bush at 9-11. They'll prise the pistol out of my cold, dead hand before that'll happen.
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The answer is term limits. But they will never vote for term limits on themselves. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 08:35:37 [Permalink]
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| I know I am. That is why I am so very grateful that I have a Saviour who is not. A perfect and blameless Advocate who will plead on my behalf. |
Yeah, too bad he doesn't follow his own rules though. He had his disciples take some guy's donkey without asking permission first, he says that he's not going to go to some party, but then later goes in secret, he disrespects his mother ("honour thy mother and father"), etc.
Though I bet you'll come up with the usual excuses that I've seen religious people use before... |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 08:37:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by the_ignored
I did acknowledge your contempt for politicians in general Bill. Nice to see it confirmed.
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Well you used a question mark so I just wondered if you doubted me. My bad.
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Yeah, I was checking for confirmation.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 08:38:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
That is innuendo and innuendo ain't evidence. I said Kennedy gave her parents money. The fact is Kennedy gave her parents money. You can come to your own conclusions. |
That's your innuendo, Bill, and as I've said already, your innuendo isn't evidence. Thanks for agreeing with me.| I know I am. That is why I am so very grateful that I have a Saviour who is not. A perfect and blameless Advocate who will plead on my behalf. |
So what stops you from raping and killing? You think you've got a Savior who'll sweep your bearing false witness under the rug, so why can't you get away with murder, theft, dishonoring your parents, etc? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 08:42:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
| And I stand by it. Anybody that wagers another persons life for their personal political gain is a coward and a jerk, IMO. |
I agree entirely.
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The thing that burns me the most about Bush was that he ran as a fiscal conservative but his spending on wars and pet projects, with no way to pay for it expect to pile it on the national debt, was not fiscal conservatism at all.
Whatever I think about Clinton for other things I have to acknowledge that the guy was fiscally conservative and followed the pay as you go model leaving office with the country in a surplus, while Bush left a debt.
The thing that scares me is Obama is spending faster then Bush, with no way to pay for it. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 08/29/2009 08:44:49 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 09:42:02 [Permalink]
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Bill:
Many times they were privileged before becoming a major political figure so that only adds to their diva mentality. |
It seems that everyone who knew Kennedy personally would disagree with the idea that he had a diva mentality. Even the opposition. He seemed to make genuine friendships with the lowliest of Jr. Senators on both sides of the isle. He surprised many of them by being there for them when they were in personal crisis. You paint with a broad brush Bill, but his friends say you are wrong.
Also, has it occurred to you that coming from privilege also means that you can't be bought? We know so many politicians who voted as their largest contributor wanted them to. Kennedy didn't have to do that. He could vote his ideals, which certainly served the ideals of the people who voted for him over and over again and over again. It's no small thing that his father told his kids to remember where the Kennedy's came from. Yes, they had money and power, but it was Joe's idea that privilege should be repaid by working for those without.
It's easy to become cynical about politicians. But Kennedy simply doesn't fit your caricature of him. No matter how many times you bring up Chappaquiddick, what he did in the senate tells the story of a man who stayed firmly tied to his political convictions, instilled in him by his father and a whole boat load of personal tragedy. And it tells the story of a partisan senator who could leave his politics aside and develop true friendships with his political foes who came to like him and respect him as a man.
Even with all his youthful failings factored in, America is a better place because he lived.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 10:07:06 [Permalink]
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| Bill: The answer is term limits. But they will never vote for term limits on themselves. |
I disagree. That's nothing but the electorate trying to absolve themselves from the responsibility of making shitty choices. That's you & me, Bill, and everyone else.
And how pray, do you avoid a shitty choice? Easy; you tell both or even all parties to fuck off and carefully study the candidates. The one that closest represents what is best for the country as a whole is the one you go for. And if he/she manages to get into office and does a good and conscientious job, you vote to keep his/her ass in there until they quit on their own or croak in the saddle, as has Kennedy.
How hard is that?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/29/2009 : 11:35:29 [Permalink]
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Are these people even sane? Or are they just evil pieces of cesspool flotsam spewing hatred for their own profit?
I rather suspect insanity, evil intent and greed all in a single slops bucket.
Media Matters: Storming Camelot: Sen. Kennedy's death brings out worst from the right
August 28, 2009 11:34 pm ET
Following Wednesday's early-morning news that Sen. Edward M. Kennedy had lost his battle with brain cancer, Media Matters posted the following statement from president Eric Burns at 3:51 a.m. ET on the County Fair blog:
"Ted Kennedy was a true American statesman. The values that he so eloquently and tirelessly championed represent the best of our American ideals. He reached across the aisle to get hard work done but never sacrificed principle. Though he is gone, the dream will forever live on. Our thoughts and prayers go out to Vicki Kennedy, the Senator's family, his loyal staff and the millions of lives he touched throughout his historic life and career."
Far from letting Kennedy rest in peace, many media conservatives savagely attacked the Senate's last liberal lion. Leading the charge was radio host Rush Limbaugh, who began his broadcast Wednesday morning eulogizing Kennedy by calling him "the lion of the Senate" before noting that "we were his prey." Hardly finished, El Rushbo would go on to say that "Kennedy screwed up everything he touched." He said Kennedy's opposition to Robert Bork's Supreme Court nomination was "the beginning of the dawn of the age of the current hate." He claimed Kennedy "used the government to take money from people that work to give it to people that don't work" and that "most of Senator Kennedy's plans ended up damaging the people he seeks to help." Finally, Limbaugh marveled at the fact that "the Constitution is still there, even after Ted Kennedy in the Senate for 52 [sic] years." All that and more led MSNBC's Joe Scarborough and Politico's Patrick Gavin to agree that "Limbaugh showed great restraint" in discussing Kennedy's death. Can you imagine what Rush would have said had it not been for such "restraint?"
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But the real insanity shows up in that their lies are actually listened to rather than ridiculed and their teller ridden off to media oblivion on a rail.
They are the ones who hate America, even though it has made them wealthy as no other country could. They are unfit for any sort of public attention beyond the throwing of rotted fruit, and their loyal followers are no better. If there was any fucking justice in this world, the whole lot would be banished to a compound in some Mideast shit-hole or other, where they could cannibalize each other. They'd probably enjoy that.
Oh, and Rush, you bloated caricature of a syphilitic man-whore, I think it's a damned shame that Scalia and Thomas, and that partisan scumbag Roberts, weren't Borked as well. Teddy was asleep at the switch for those.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 12:27:52 [Permalink]
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Bill wrote: | The answer is term limits. But they will never vote for term limits on themselves. |
Presidents have term limits and people here including you have pointed to issues we had with Bush and Cheney.
| The thing that burns me the most about Bush was that he ran as a fiscal conservative but his spending on wars and pet projects, with no way to pay for it expect to pile it on the national debt, was not fiscal conservatism at all. |
Really? That's what burns you the most? Not the masses of dead and injured Iraqi civilians and soldiers? Not the destruction of the infrastructure of a country which never attacked the USA and was not a serious threat to US sovereignty? Not the victims of torture?
Seriously, Bill, I'm sore about the money and incredibly increased debt for Americans too. But in this incidence, I wouldn't put that right at the top of the list.
Clinton didn't come into office in the midst of a serious economic downturn, nor did he have to deal with anything like 9-11, so it is comparing apples to oranges to compare his kind of spending to Bush's and Obama's.
| The thing that scares me is Obama is spending faster then Bush, with no way to pay for it. |
It is not fair to say that Obama is spending "faster than Bush" until Obama's presidency has gone on longer and we can fairly compare the spending on the economic downturn to the spending on the Iraqi war in their entirety. There were no easy choices to make regarding the economic situation of the USA when Obama took office, and things aren't really better yet. The economic problems are simply not going to be a quick fix. Nobody is happy with what is happening and I don't think anyone is going to be. I'm pretty skeptical of whether Bill Clinton would fair any better if he were in office right now. Especially considering that it was during Clinton's administration that regulations could have been put on Wall Street which could have prevented a lot of the economic crisis. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/29/2009 : 14:09:49 [Permalink]
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In the pursuit of fair and balanced tastelessness, here's the infamous "ad" that the National Lampoon ran sometime after Chappaquiddick:
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 08/30/2009 : 01:25:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
The thing that burns me the most about Bush was that he ran as a fiscal conservative but his spending on wars and pet projects, with no way to pay for it expect to pile it on the national debt, was not fiscal conservatism at all.
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So a few hundred thousand Iraqi deaths, and a few thousand American soldiers lives from an illegal war of agression is just collateral damage to you and not on par with fiscal conservatism?
If the Bush administration had actually made a cash surplus from stealing Iraqi oil, all those deaths would have been acceptable to you?
Good to know where your priorities are. 
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/31/2009 : 16:18:35 [Permalink]
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Probably would not have gotten involved, but found the following posted on a friends facebook wall.
Ted Kennedy: An American Legacy As soon as cancer was found, there came immediate attempts at canonization of old Teddy by the main stream media. They are saying what a "great American" he is. Let's get a few things clear & not t...wist the facts to change the real history. 1. He was caught cheating at Harvard when he attended it. He was expelled twice, once for cheating on a test, and once for paying a classm
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My response with links, one from Marfknox:
Ted Kennedy. There are some who will select an unsavory detail of Ted's life and try to elevate its significants. This is nothing more than cherry picking in support of a confirmation bias. Certainly he was no saint, but who among us are.
Here is a summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy A Time piece: http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090827/us_time/08599191896800
Ted did do a few good things. We theoretically elect people to "represent us" and therefore should hold them to a higher standard. His conduct over the years is one that you should be embarrased of if it was your relative, let alone someone we were paying and then conduct themself in that manner. Keep it in perspective as to what standard you ... Read Moreshould expect and then you would understand a conservative's opinion. The liberals have continually supported the availability of his huge cherry harvest.
Weigh all the factors rather than over looking the facts. What should we "expect" for our representation and should we expect corruption or expect higher ethics and standards? At what point should we vote responsibly to remove those that do not demonstrate those high standards of ethics?
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Not the first time he has confused empty rhetoric with facts. And since facebook walls are a poor medium for this type of discussion I invited him here. It is not the first time I have extended such an invitation, won't be the last. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2009 : 14:47:43 [Permalink]
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Brother Harry Hardwick eulogizes Ted Kennedy.
| "Good evening, Brothers and Sisters in the Lord's righteous wrath and vengeance. Let us bow and our heads and thank our Savior that the dark days of the Catholic Cosa Nostra are over. The last of the Keynesian Kennedy clan is gone. (Now, folks in the balcony, don't fret. That's “clan” with a “c”.) I want to thank the Lord for picking off the latest lib, Teddy, the day before my weekly Wednesday sermon. And thank you Lord for taking him late at night, so I didn't have to Tivo Fox News primetime. While I admire Bill and Sean greatly, my sense of righteousness and ear drums can't take them twice in one day. |
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Ted Kennedy has died
