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 Ken's gonna love this! It was buried in a flood...
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2009 :  13:05:45  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And it's a very ancient dinosaur, praise Jesus! And that ain't all; it's also a precursor of everyone's favorite meat-grinder, Tyrannosaurus rex, how 'bout them apples?
By Dan Vergano, USA TODAY
Discovery of a primitive precursor to Tyrannosaurus Rex, some 215 million years old, points to a South American origin for dinosaurs, paleontologists reported Thursday.

In the journal Science, a team led by Sterling Nesbitt of the American Museum of Natural History in New York, unveils Tawa hallae, found in a fossil bone bed near New Mexico's Ghost Ranch, made famous by the artist Georgia O'Keefe. Nesbitt's team named the creature, a 6.5-foot-long meat-eating precursor to T. Rex, after a Pueblo sun god and the fossil collector Ruth Hall.

"Tawa helps us reconstruct the origins of all the most primitive dinosaurs, suggesting they were likely located in South America," Nesbitt says. The dinosaur, "probably ate anything he got his hands on," he adds.



Is that cool or what?




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Baxter
Skeptic Friend

USA
131 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2009 :  13:24:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Baxter a Private Message  Reply with Quote

"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13474 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2009 :  13:50:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow! Very cool. I suppose that the feathers on the artists rendering is pure speculation, given how old this dinosaur is.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2009 :  16:26:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Wow! Very cool. I suppose that the feathers on the artists rendering is pure speculation, given how old this dinosaur is.

It's really kinda hard to say; they're finding evidence of feathers on older and older fossils, so the artist is fairly safe in the license. And there is a school of thought that has it that T. rex might have been feathered as a juvenile. I don't know where that idea came from, but I've read that some very bright people have been speculating on it. Unfortunately, fossils of juvies are only slightly more common than eyebrows on eggs. But the feathered 'rex is one I'd love to see.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2009 :  05:44:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, Ken missed it but the ever-reliable ICR, in the person of Brian Thomas (M.S.), is eagerly grasping at straws all over the fossil, which he has yet to see let alone study.
New Dinosaur Causes New Confusion

Share this Articleby Brian Thomas, M.S. *

In their recent examination of a new two-legged dinosaur discovered in New Mexico, evolutionary paleontologists were looking for new clues to untangle their conflicting theories of dinosaur origins. But instead of providing answers, the new dinosaur has joined a growing list of fossil finds that don’t fit an evolutionary picture.

A study was recently published in the journal Science on the new theropod dinosaur,1 which was named Tawa hallae after the Hopi Indian name for the sun god, “Tawa.” The Tawa discovery included remains from about five different individuals in the fossil-rich quarry at Ghost Ranch in northern New Mexico, where Hopi and other Pueblo Indians used to live. The quarry penetrates Upper Triassic sediments that were formed, according to study co-author Randy Irmis, when fishes, crocodile-like animals, and dinosaurs were “swept into the river channel during flooding episodes.”2

As is common with reconstructions of evolutionary history, determining which of the various dinosaur forms are related and when and how they merged, emerged, or diverged has been a frustrating challenge for evolutionary researchers. Nevertheless, the authors began the Science paper optimistically by stating, “Characterization of this taxon’s morphology and phylogenetic history enables us to solidify basal saurischian dinosaur relationships.”1 In other words, Tawa hallae’s characteristics supposedly bring clarity to the previously confusing web of dinosaurs’ evolutionary connections.

However, after a lengthy discussion of the implications of the Tawa finds, the researchers concluded, “Explaining these patterns remains an outstanding problem in early dinosaur evolution.”1 One pattern that is difficult to explain is the lack of transitional features in Tawa, which renders its placement into the dinosaur evolutionary tree very subjective.

I think that the story here is how Creationists simply can't stand uncertainty. It all has to be laid out for them in entirety; Chapter & Verse, as it were. Otherwise, they would be required to do some actual research that doesn't involve the Bible, and they ain't havin' none o' that!

But then, when 215 million years is crammed into a 6,000 year geological sneeze, they don't have a hell of lot of extra space left over for actual science. Thus, they have no choice but to blatantly, and laughably, promote the Bible as a scientific document and hold fast to the imaginative nonsense it has inspired them to come up with. My favorite is the "no transitionals" yakkadoodle that they bounce around at every opportunity including this one.

And that's what apologetics is all about.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Baxter
Skeptic Friend

USA
131 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2009 :  08:51:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Baxter a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Speaking of apologetics in general, there was a time when I taught apologetics to my sunday school class. I felt led by God to teach them how to defend the bible. However, things fell apart pretty quickly. I started realizing it was absurd to go to such great lengths to make a set of beliefs work for me. I was just making the facts fit my theories.

I also tried to teach my class theology, and oh boy, is this futile indeed! I grew sick of the Calvinism/Arminianism nonsense, not to mention Preterism/Futurism and many more. It's all baloney. You can make the bible say whatever you want it to. All of this is suppose to build one's faith, but it introduced many doubts in my mind.

"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey

"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2009 :  09:03:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

And it's a very ancient dinosaur, praise Jesus! And that ain't all; it's also a precursor of everyone's favorite meat-grinder, Tyrannosaurus rex, how 'bout them apples?
By Dan Vergano, USA TODAY
Discovery of a primitive precursor to Tyrannosaurus Rex, some 215 million years old, points to a South American origin for dinosaurs, paleontologists reported Thursday.

In the journal Science, a team led by Sterling Nesbitt of the American Museum of Natural History in New York, unveils Tawa hallae, found in a fossil bone bed near New Mexico's Ghost Ranch, made famous by the artist Georgia O'Keefe. Nesbitt's team named the creature, a 6.5-foot-long meat-eating precursor to T. Rex, after a Pueblo sun god and the fossil collector Ruth Hall.

"Tawa helps us reconstruct the origins of all the most primitive dinosaurs, suggesting they were likely located in South America," Nesbitt says. The dinosaur, "probably ate anything he got his hands on," he adds.



Is that cool or what?






Cool drawing. How exactly do they know that the pile of bones is some 215,000,000 years old?

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2009 :  09:14:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really don't have any problem with religious studies in the public schools provided they are not represented as either science or history. In fact, given the proper course of study, I would encourage it; religions can be beautifully poetic. Unfortunately, the overbearing attitudes of the fundamentalists of all faiths turn them them ugly.

"O Lord, protect me from Your followers!" eh?




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2009 :  09:25:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
C'mon Bill, we've done this before. The age of the fossil's strata was determined by radiometric dating, probably well before the specimen itself was discovered.

Hey, welcome back!




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Go to Top of Page

Bill scott
SFN Addict

USA
2103 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2009 :  09:48:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Bill scott a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

I really don't have any problem with religious studies in the public schools provided they are not represented as either science or history. In fact, given the proper course of study, I would encourage it; religions can be beautifully poetic. Unfortunately, the overbearing attitudes of the fundamentalists of all faiths turn them them ugly.

"O Lord, protect me from Your followers!" eh?






Did you happen to see Frontline last night on PBS?

"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-

"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-

The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-

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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/23/2009 :  12:27:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Bill scott

Originally posted by filthy

I really don't have any problem with religious studies in the public schools provided they are not represented as either science or history. In fact, given the proper course of study, I would encourage it; religions can be beautifully poetic. Unfortunately, the overbearing attitudes of the fundamentalists of all faiths turn them them ugly.

"O Lord, protect me from Your followers!" eh?






Did you happen to see Frontline last night on PBS?
No. Unfortunately, I can't get PBS. Hi-def sucks!

On a btighter note, I'll be moving soon and toob reception will be better.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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