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 jesus as zealot
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nochains
New Member

2 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2009 :  14:19:04  Show Profile Send nochains a Private Message  Reply with Quote
recommend 'Jesus the terrorist': good on the Enemy Paul (Saul) and Jesus as Nazarene/zealot leader

[Moved to the Religion folder - Dave W.]

filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2009 :  16:41:37   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by nochains

recommend 'Jesus the terrorist': good on the Enemy Paul (Saul) and Jesus as Nazarene/zealot leader

[Moved to the Religion folder - Dave W.]
Hi nochains and welcome to SFN!

You need to include a link, otherwise all we have to go on is an unsupported statement.

I've taken the liberty to find one, although I'm not sure it's what you have in mind.

The idea of Jesus being a 1st century terrorist is controversial to say the least, and it should perhaps be mentioned that he could equally be referred to as a freedom fighter - it is all a matter of perception. He was, most would agree, a leader of a religious movement in a time of occupation and unrest. He had come to save his people during a time of armed conflict. He was executed. He was a martyr. Does that sound a familiar story? It is an angle on the life of Jesus that deserves a great deal more historical and objective study. Are a third of the worlds population following a 2,000 year old story based on an early version of Osama Bin Laden?

Where does the evidence to suggest Jesus was a terrorist lie? Well, firstly, there is actually ample evidence to be found in the Bible itself. Following the pattern from the Old Testament, full of stories of blood and glory, violent warriors and conquest. So many of the heralded leaders of the Jewish faith were indeed armed leaders, including King David himself. So you might ask yourself, come the birth of Jesus, what were the Jews expecting? A continuation of what had come before, a glorious leader, a man of action, to take them into battle in a time of occupation and oppression? Or a peace loving man of words? If you truly believe the latter, then perhaps the first question you might ask yourself - why did God, the infallible, change his mind so suddenly and so drastically? The contrast between the Old Testament and the New is simply huge.

The bible describes many stories of Jesus fulfilling the prophesies of the Old Testament. Again, if he is fulfilling the prophesies of the Old Testament, he must by definition be the warrior that has come to liberate his people. When he went to the Temple and overturned the money changers tables, did he do this armed only with his rugged good looks? Was there really no retaliation? Did everyone simply stand back and allow an unarmed group of pacifists to destroy their businesses without so much as blinking an eyelid? It doesn't sound terribly plausible.


Again, welcome!




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26013 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2009 :  17:38:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe he's talking about this book.

Nevermind. From his registration information, he is talking about that book, so I've removed the link I provided so as to not spam my own site.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2009 :  17:43:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Maybe he's talking about this book.
You're probably right. Looks like it might be a pretty good read....

Edit: That's cool.



[Edited to delete quoted link - Dave W.]

"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Edited by - filthy on 12/10/2009 17:45:46
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2009 :  18:35:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by nochains

recommend 'Jesus the terrorist': good on the Enemy Paul (Saul) and Jesus as Nazarene/zealot leader

[Moved to the Religion folder - Dave W.]
Hey, nochains, why not offer some sort of thoughtful review of the book and put the discussion in our books folder?
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2009 :  01:45:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't understand. Is this guy trying to sell a book or is he recommending a good read for curious or open-minded skeptics?

The line separating Spam from raw meat is hard to discern without a word of explanation!

Why remove the link, unless it's just a pure product pitch?
If it is some kind of fundie book pitch, I understand. We could also be directed to Going Rogue....or was that Going Rouged that Nanookie of the North was scribbling about?
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2009 :  14:16:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A little further searching seems to suggest that the book in question was written by a certain Peter Cresswell and it's message seems to be:
His thesis is that far from being a religious leader who was intent on founding a new church, Jesus - apparently the name is a Westernisation of a garbled Greek translation of the Hebrew and Aramaic Yeshua and until 600 years ago was pronounced Iesu here in the West - was one of quite a few Jews rattling around that neck of the woods who actively tried to rid Palestine, Judea and Galilli of the Roman occupation, that his apostles were all more or less part of his extended family (the claim that he had several brothers and sisters has longed been made, although not by the Vatican, and strikes me as eminently reasonable), and that accounts of his life were later wilfully distorted by members of the emerging 'Christian' church in order to fit in with Jewish prophecies.


I have not read the book and the excerpt above from a review by "pfgpowell" appears interesting, at least. I will refrain from posting links as there appears to be a feeling that nochains may simply be spamming a book with his post; but I am trying to find a copy and if I do, I'll report back with a review or comment. I certainly have no financial interest in it!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26013 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2009 :  15:20:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

Hey, nochains, why not offer some sort of thoughtful review of the book and put the discussion in our books folder?
nochains' registration information indicates that he is a part of the author's publicity team.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4954 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2009 :  17:38:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by Cuneiformist

Hey, nochains, why not offer some sort of thoughtful review of the book and put the discussion in our books folder?
nochains' registration information indicates that he is a part of the author's publicity team.
Fair enough. It's entirely unlikely that nochains will be back anyhow, so I guess we will have to wait and see about this book...
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nochains
New Member

2 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2009 :  07:19:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send nochains a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi all, It is my book, so I won't presume to review it! But I intend to stay with the network, contributing as and when I can.
I'm tackling the evangelicals on their ground. It is worth the effort, harder for them simply to ignore it.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2009 :  09:41:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I Am Not A Biblical Scholar, but:

I suspect the Jesus of the Bible is a conflation of several now-unknown messianic leaders, along with inserted elements of classical mythology and justifications for the authority of the developing church hierarchy.

The fact that the Jesus we "know" has elements of exclusionary Jewish traditionalism as well as inclusive cosmopolitanism, violent anti-Roman and anti-Herodian screeds as well as pacifism and the "render unto Caesar" statement -- all this leads me to think early church fathers compiled statements and policies from disparate and contradictory First Century Judean religious leaders, all the while massaging the results as they went along to justify themselves.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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