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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 13:25:11 [Permalink]
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One thing I'd like to mention is that I don't consider my "discovery" to be in any way brilliant. That's the point. It's just a largely accidental demonstration that just about anyone with a computer can find evidence of the corporate control and funding of this huge surge in reaction that is exemplified by the Teabagger "movement."
A sneaky political stunt on such a scale leaves footprints that anyone can find. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 03/01/2010 : 14:01:17 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by HalfMooner |
| I think it's relevant to note that here is someone trekking across country from an overwhelmingly white enclave |
"A white enclave" LOL!!!!! Oh that is rich. So because the town she comes from is a majority of white people there must be a racist overtone here? How many towns across the US have a white majority? The vast majority.
So now she is a racist because she lives in a former slave state? Oh good grief!
| to participate in a lily-white demonstration with obvious racist overtones, |
Your racist overtones.
| especially when this is a demonstration against the first African-American President. |
He is where your skull is to thick for your own good. This a protest against the President of the US and his policy. You are the only one who likes to obsess on the fact that he is partial African-American. As if conservatives have never protested a liberal president before, it's only because he is black (partially). (sigh) Give me a frickin break.
| When that demonstration seems to be financed by tax-exempt, corporate-funded, right-wing non-profit groups, |
Ever heard of George Soros, Moveon.org etc...??????
| that racial detail seems important to note. Your perception may, and doubtless does, vary. |
You are pathetic. You have falsely accused me of being a racist on this forum several different times in the past. The last time it was so ridicules that you pretty much had to offer me an apology, which you did, after I called you on it. But I don't think you have learned a darn thing from those false accusations, nor did you heed my advise. Keep on throwing your baseless accusations around like dime store candy, the more you ramble on and on and make these silly and baseless racist accusations against anybody who disagrees with the policy of your president the more and more the folks just tune you and yours out. You racist ignorant bigot! There, you see how it easy it is to throw around baseless accusations. Grow up baldy! |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 03/01/2010 14:05:31 |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 18:45:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by Machi4velli
Relevance? |
I think it's relevant to note that here is someone trekking across country from an overwhelmingly white enclave in a former slave state, to participate in a lily-white demonstration with obvious racist overtones, especially when this is a demonstration against the first African-American President. When that demonstration seems to be financed by tax-exempt, corporate-funded, right-wing non-profit groups, that racial detail seems important to note. Your perception may, and doubtless does, vary. |
This picture is in DC. Yes, it used to be part of Virginia which used to be a slave state, but it is now the center of the national government, and is the logical place to have a protest over whatever policies you don't like.
What are the racist overtones? Nothing you said so far has justified that accusation. Certainly the fact that most of the protesters are white is not in itself enough to make anything racist. It being associated with the Republican party isn't enough, there have been plenty of incidents of racism or racist comments from both Republicans and Democrats. The fact that it is funded by tax-exempt, corporate-funded, right-wing non-profit groups is not enough. Republicans of course bitched about taxes when Clinton was president as well. I am not saying there are definitely no racist overtones, or am I by any means making a ridiculous statement like calling you a racist like Bill Scott, but I certainly do not think you have supported that statement.
| Astroturfing is a very important issue for a movement that's billed by it's corporate financiers as an honest, grassroots populist moment, especially when those corporate backers are designing, printing, and manufacturing placards for their stooges. |
Why exactly are the protesters wearing FreedomWorks shirts if it's meant to appear not to be sponsored by this organization? |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 19:05:02 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by DudeIt's a clever exploitation, yet again, of the right wing voting base. Those idiots have been being manipulated for decades into voting against their own self interests, and this whole teabagger thing is just more of the same from the same manipulative people. |
Suppose not everyone thinks it is best to always vote their best interest? For example, I have a chronic disability and am at university, but I choose not to apply for scholarships giving preferences to disabled persons because I don't agree with it in principle.
For a related and more immediately political example, I oppose affirmative action for persons with disabilities (or any other group based on something unrelated to the position) if it in any way gives these people, myself included, an edge or "extra points" in the decision calculus. I'm not being manipulated, I have what I consider a well-reasoned position (others may disagree of course), which happens to not favor myself.
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"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 19:29:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
Suppose not everyone thinks it is best to always vote their best interest? For example, I have a chronic disability and am at university, but I choose not to apply for scholarships giving preferences to disabled persons because I don't agree with it in principle. |
Which principle? Would you vote for or against a referendum which sought to eliminate all such scholarships for all disabled people?| For a related and more immediately political example, I oppose affirmative action for persons with disabilities (or any other group based on something unrelated to the position) if it in any way gives these people, myself included, an edge or "extra points" in the decision calculus. I'm not being manipulated, I have what I consider a well-reasoned position (others may disagree of course), which happens to not favor myself. |
But that's not in your best interest, is it? If less-qualified people get hired, the whole company gets dragged down. And/or the less-qualified person gets fired for cause for being under-qualified, which doesn't help their ability to get a job for which they are qualified. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 20:23:19 [Permalink]
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I don't like that scholarships target specific groups (other than financial need) just for being a member of the group, I don't see being a member of the group as any sort of accomplishment. I prefer to compete on equal footing as everyone else on some basis related to something the other applicants and myself have accomplished or how we have performed at something (academics, community service, or what have you). Not agreeing with the scholarships doesn't mean I want them to be illegal. If organizations want to give their money exclusively to those with disabilities, I don't recognize the right for government to tell them that they cannot.
Arguments typically used to defend such things is that "this person, by virtue of being in the group, most likely had more difficulties in getting an equal qualification." Why is this assumption justified? I think it is an unwarranted generalization.
I suppose you could look at the second thing as not being in my best interest from that perspective. It would probably be more good than bad for me if I got the job or position at a school, even if it meant the company/school becomes somehow less good. If membership in such a group is only used as a tie-breaker, or marginally improves a person's chances over another, the company/school may not be harmed at all. Even in this situation, I don't like membership in such a group to be the tiebreaker, why is it relevant? |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
| Edited by - Machi4velli on 03/01/2010 20:26:50 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 21:40:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by HalfMooner |
| I think it's relevant to note that here is someone trekking across country from an overwhelmingly white enclave |
"A white enclave" LOL!!!!! Oh that is rich. So because the town she comes from is a majority of white people there must be a racist overtone here? How many towns across the US have a white majority? The vast majority.
So now she is a racist because she lives in a former slave state? Oh good grief!
| to participate in a lily-white demonstration with obvious racist overtones, |
Your racist overtones.
| especially when this is a demonstration against the first African-American President. |
He is where your skull is to thick for your own good. This a protest against the President of the US and his policy. You are the only one who likes to obsess on the fact that he is partial African-American. As if conservatives have never protested a liberal president before, it's only because he is black (partially). (sigh) Give me a frickin break.
| When that demonstration seems to be financed by tax-exempt, corporate-funded, right-wing non-profit groups, |
Ever heard of George Soros, Moveon.org etc...??????
| that racial detail seems important to note. Your perception may, and doubtless does, vary. |
You are pathetic. You have falsely accused me of being a racist on this forum several different times in the past. The last time it was so ridicules that you pretty much had to offer me an apology, which you did, after I called you on it. But I don't think you have learned a darn thing from those false accusations, nor did you heed my advise. Keep on throwing your baseless accusations around like dime store candy, the more you ramble on and on and make these silly and baseless racist accusations against anybody who disagrees with the policy of your president the more and more the folks just tune you and yours out. You racist ignorant bigot! There, you see how it easy it is to throw around baseless accusations. Grow up baldy!
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Thank you very much for chiming in, Bill. Whenever you do so, you ensure a fine amount of reaction and readership.
Rather than dealing in strict sequence with your comments, I want to address the important ones first:| "A white enclave" LOL!!!!! Oh that is rich. So because the town she comes from is a majority of white people there must be a racist overtone here? How many towns across the US have a white majority? The vast majority. |
We're talking a border-south town with a 95.32% Caucasian and 2.24% African American population. Surely, you are not so naive that you do not see such a population mix almost certainly resulted from deliberate, even recent housing discrimination? I see a pattern here, of a woman coming from a lily-white, border-south enclave to attend a demonstration which sported a great number of both covert and overt racist placards. Never in my lifetime have I seen a President falsely accused of such ridiculous things. It's significant that the crowds doing it are almost completely white, and that their target is the first Black President. I think person would have to either be very stupid or very racist not to see (or not to admit to seeing) the racist pattern. (That's not an implication against you, Bill: It's a bald statement that I think you must be either stupid or racist.)
You are pathetic. You have falsely accused me of being a racist on this forum several different times in the past. The last time it was so ridicules that you pretty much had to offer me an apology, which you did, after I called you on it. But I don't think you have learned a darn thing from those false accusations, nor did you heed my advise. Keep on throwing your baseless accusations around like dime store candy, the more you ramble on and on and make these silly and baseless racist accusations against anybody who disagrees with the policy of your president the more and more the folks just tune you and yours out. You racist ignorant bigot! There, you see how it easy it is to throw around baseless accusations. Grow up baldy! |
That's rich. As you must recall, I sincerely and humbly apologized last time because my implication of your racism was not supported by your comments. You "accepted" my apology at the time -- do you not remember that? I can recall no other time before have I so much as implied you were a racist. If you think I did, here's your chance: Show me!
Now you have directly and explicitly labeled me a "racist and ignorant bigot!" It's typical right-wing tactics to falsely label those who oppose racism as "racists." I deny this accusation, but I will not ask you for an apology, as it would be worthless, as sincere as your "acceptance" of my own apology.
Yes, I plead guilty of baldness. I have lost hair in front, and in back. Instead of combing what's left over to cover the bare spots, I prefer shaving my head. So eat me, Fundy crackpot.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/01/2010 23:19:02 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 22:32:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
I don't like that scholarships target specific groups (other than financial need) just for being a member of the group, I don't see being a member of the group as any sort of accomplishment. I prefer to compete on equal footing as everyone else on some basis related to something the other applicants and myself have accomplished or how we have performed at something (academics, community service, or what have you). Not agreeing with the scholarships doesn't mean I want them to be illegal. If organizations want to give their money exclusively to those with disabilities, I don't recognize the right for government to tell them that they cannot.
Arguments typically used to defend such things is that "this person, by virtue of being in the group, most likely had more difficulties in getting an equal qualification." Why is this assumption justified? I think it is an unwarranted generalization. |
Scholarships aren't about qualifications, they're about finances. They're about helping people who get the grades but who might not be able to pay for the education. They are gifts, given to people who most importantly want to get more educated, and less importantly belong to some group or other. And the people with the money to give decide who they want to give it to.
I imagine that the medical costs generally associated with disabilities can chew through a lot of tuition money. I further speculate that the people who set up scholarship funds for people with disabilities are trying to ease that cash crunch a bit. It's not about disabilities being accomplishments, it's about disabilities hindering accomplishments, through no fault of the disabled student.
And there's always the chance that with the scholarship money, a person could go on to do Great Things for the next generation of disabled people that without the money, he/she wouldn't have had the opportunity to do. A few thousand dollars can make the difference between a geneticist and a med-school drop-out, for just one example.
Life handed you a lemon. The people who offer the scholarships are trying to help you make lemonade.| I suppose you could look at the second thing as not being in my best interest from that perspective. It would probably be more good than bad for me if I got the job or position at a school, even if it meant the company/school becomes somehow less good. If membership in such a group is only used as a tie-breaker, or marginally improves a person's chances over another, the company/school may not be harmed at all. Even in this situation, I don't like membership in such a group to be the tiebreaker, why is it relevant? |
Well, I'm certainly not trying to defend it. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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podcat
Skeptic Friend
435 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2010 : 22:50:38 [Permalink]
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| As Keith Olbermann asked, "Where are all the people of color in the tea parties?" |
| Edited by - podcat on 03/01/2010 22:59:34 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 09:38:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by podcat
As Keith Olbermann asked, "Where are all the people of color in the tea parties?"
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So everyone in Harlem is a racist because there are no/few white people?
Shoot the NBA is big time racist then with the lack of white boys represented in that association. BET a racist television network. Cosby Show, yep, racist etc... etc... |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 03/02/2010 10:24:48 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 10:13:23 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by HalfMooner |
| We're talking a border-south town with a 95.32% Caucasian and 2.24% African American population. |
So what? How many towns across the entire US have a white majority?
| Surely, you are not so naive that you do not see such a population mix almost certainly resulted from deliberate, even recent housing discrimination? |
The housing mess we are in now is because we went out of our way to force banks to give housing loans to people who could never pay it back. Everyone would like to give away free housing to the poor but who is going to pay for it, you?
| I see a pattern here, of a woman coming from a lily-white, border-south enclave to attend a demonstration which sported a great number of both covert and overt racist placards. Never in my lifetime have I seen a President falsely accused of such ridiculous things. |
Did you just start following politics last year?
| It's significant that the crowds doing it are almost completely white, and that their target is the first Black President. |
I think you are the one with a color problem. I see him as the president while the only thing that you can see is a black president. Your fixation with this fact demonstrates your inability to see nothing but a black president, rather then just a president, like I do.
| I think person would have to either be very stupid or very racist not to see (or not to admit to seeing) the racist pattern. |
I think someone has to be stupid or ignorant to not see that you have a serious fixation on the color of our president's skin as much as you ramble on about the fact. One would have to come away with the conclusion that I see BO as president while all you can see is BO as a black president.
| (That's not an implication against you, Bill: It's a bald statement that I think you must be either stupid or racist.) |
Well with your history of shot from the hip accusations I am not losing any sleep over this latest one.
| That's rich. As you must recall, I sincerely and humbly apologized last time because my implication of your racism was not supported by your comments. You "accepted" my apology at the time -- do you not remember that? |
But you continue to flippantly throw the baseless accusations around as if you don't remember.
| I can recall no other time before have I so much as implied you were a racist. If you think I did, here's your chance: Show me! |
As if once was not enough?
| Now you have directly and explicitly labeled me a "racist and ignorant bigot!" |
Context, context, context. After chiding you for unfounded accusations I merely demonstrated how easy it was to sit there and call people (you) names and I think you know this. So another false accusation by you. You are consistent I will say that.
| It's typical right-wing tactics to falsely label those who oppose racism as "racists." |
You are the one obsessed with the color of this presidents skin, not me. You have clearly demonstrated this.
| I deny this accusation, but I will not ask you for an apology, as it would be worthless, as sincere as your "acceptance" of my own apology. |
More false accusations. Are you a one trick pony?
| Yes, I plead guilty of baldness. I have lost hair in front, and in back. Instead of combing what's left over to cover the bare spots, I prefer shaving my head. So eat me, Fundy crackpot. |
Oh don't get your pants all twisted, it was just a little jest. Who knows, maybe someday natural selection will take care of that whole bald defect in your dna? One can hope. Truth be told my hair is not nearly as thick as it once was back in my glory days.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 03/02/2010 10:21:32 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 11:34:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by HalfMooner |
| We're talking a border-south town with a 95.32% Caucasian and 2.24% African American population. |
So what? How many towns across the entire US have a white majority? |
What is pertinent to the "white enclave" statement is the racial mix in the surrounding area. If the mix is homogeneously 95.3-to-2.2% within 100 km radius, then HalfMooner would be hard pressed to infer racism. But if the population is relatively homogeneous 50-50 or even 75% Caucasian with a normalised distribution within those numbers, then a 95+% ratio will indeed be significant.
| Surely, you are not so naive that you do not see such a population mix almost certainly resulted from deliberate, even recent housing discrimination? |
The housing mess we are in now is because we went out of our way to force banks to give housing loans to people who could never pay it back. Everyone would like to give away free housing to the poor but who is going to pay for it, you? |
The "housing mess" you refer to is only relevant to this discussion if you can show that this 'someone' comes from an area where this practice could have produced this remarkable offset is racial distribution. Otherwise, it's just a red herring, and a logical fallacy.
| It's significant that the crowds doing it are almost completely white, and that their target is the first Black President. |
I think you are the one with a color problem. I see him as the president while the only thing that you can see is a black president. Your fixation with this fact demonstrates your inability to see nothing but a black president, rather then just a president, like I do.
| I think person would have to either be very stupid or very racist not to see (or not to admit to seeing) the racist pattern. |
I think someone has to be stupid or ignorant to not see that you have a serious fixation on the color of our president's skin as much as you ramble on about the fact. One would have to come away with the conclusion that I see BO as president while all you can see is BO as a black president. |
False dichotomy. It could also be that intelligent people realise that you are misinterpreting HalfMooner's concern that there are still too many racists in your country, and that these people are dumb enough to be played by the corporations.
| (That's not an implication against you, Bill: It's a bald statement that I think you must be either stupid or racist.) |
Well with your history of shot from the hip accusations I am not losing any sleep over this latest one. |
I'm (not) surprised that you missed this but... HalfMooner presented a false dichotomy to you. You could actually be both.
| I can recall no other time before have I so much as implied you were a racist. If you think I did, here's your chance: Show me! |
As if once was not enough? |
Once isn't indicative of a trend or persistence.
| It's typical right-wing tactics to falsely label those who oppose racism as "racists." |
You are the one obsessed with the color of this presidents skin, not me. You have clearly demonstrated this. |
No he hasn't.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 12:45:36 [Permalink]
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Just a quickie for Bill: I'm not angry for being called "baldy." Honest. I'm not sensitive about that. Unlike Bible folks, I would not call upon a deity to send two she-bears to slaughter you for your mockery, as did Elisha. I think you resorted to this ad homin in your desperate poverty of argument, and with intent to show hatred.
My closing insult in my response to your attack was flavored with the bitter bile of being called a racist by the likes of you. Nobody's perfect, and both overt and covert racism has formed part of the cultural heritage of many people, especially white people in the USA. But long ago when I was just 17 years old, I was active in the Civil Rights movement, and helped to break the bar that Bank of America imposed against hiring black employees for jobs that would put them in contact with the public.
Your "I know I am but what are you?" argument in this context is a classic ploy used by racists. As such, it is racist. That's why I was, and am, pissed -- not because I am pining for my long, flowing golden locks. I don't miss them at all... (sob!) |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 13:19:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Scholarships aren't about qualifications, they're about finances. They're about helping people who get the grades but who might not be able to pay for the education. They are gifts, given to people who most importantly want to get more educated, and less importantly belong to some group or other. And the people with the money to give decide who they want to give it to. |
That's just not true. Some scholarships are entirely based on qualifications while some are a mix of qualifications and finances while others are entirely financial (mostly grants technically), all of which exist and are open only to particular groups. I suppose the ones I don't like are the purely performance-based ones that are open only to a particular group.
I did say I recognize the right of people giving away money to give it to who they like. Whoever gets any sort of money for school does have a great opportunity to benefit. I just choose not to participate in performance-based programs that are open only to a group to which I belong.
| I imagine that the medical costs generally associated with disabilities can chew through a lot of tuition money. I further speculate that the people who set up scholarship funds for people with disabilities are trying to ease that cash crunch a bit. It's not about disabilities being accomplishments, it's about disabilities hindering accomplishments, through no fault of the disabled student. |
This may be true for some, but it's still an over-generalization. It's just the blindness with which so much of the money is given away. |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2010 : 13:52:01 [Permalink]
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Back on the topic:
Here, with a hat tip to my daughter, is one way that Teabagger-organizing FreedomWorks (formerly named Citizens for a Sound Economy) gets its money and "members." By tricking unsuspecting insurance clients:With Insurance Policy Comes Membership
Unbeknown to Some, Those Signing Up With Firm Are Joining Conservative Group
By Jonathan Weisman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, July 23, 2006; Page A05
In 2001, Jennifer B. Chace heard an insurance broker's pitch for a new insurance company marketing tax-free medical savings accounts. She jumped at the offer, but first, the broker told her, she would have to sign an application -- already filled out -- that would entitle her to a low group rate.
With that signature, Chace, a Florida dentist in the market for health insurance, unwittingly joined one of Washington's most prominent conservative organizations, Citizens for a Sound Economy, she would later testify.
"Before I showed you this form today, did you even realize that you signed a form that was an application for membership in Citizens for a Sound Economy?" her lawyer would ask during a 2004 deposition.
"I don't know what Citizens for a Sound Economy is," she replied.
Chace's experience has brought to light an obscure arrangement between a prominent Republican businessman, J. Patrick Rooney, and a free-market interest group that has netted the grass-roots organization hundreds of thousands of dollars and thousands of new members. Citizens for a Sound Economy -- now called FreedomWorks and headed by former House majority leader Richard K. Armey (R-Tex.) -- has netted more than $638,000 and about 16,000 members through the sale of insurance policies. |
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/02/2010 13:53:43 |
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Zooming in on Teabaggers
