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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
 Posted - 04/21/2010 : 05:37:51 [Permalink]
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[[/quote]
It's not about a minority being better or not. It's about the government protecting the rights of everybody, regardless of the power they have or the popularity of their viewpoint.
[/quote]
The rights are already there and are already protected. There is nothing that I know of stopping citizens from approaching companies and demanding they change things. If companies don't change things to the way their customers want them then the customers won't buy the product.
(I really gotta get this whole copy and paste quote thingy down) |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 06:22:59 [Permalink]
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| Slippery slope my derriere. If anyone thinks this is a slippery slope, throw some salt on it. It's a demonstrable health hazard when used in the levels that it is currently being used in some processed foods. It should be regulated. Left to their own devices food processors may chose to over salt their products to increase food sales over their competitors, in spite of known detrimental health affects to the population as a whole. It should come as no surprise to anyone that profitability can easily preempt health factors during product formulation. By legislating maximum levels per serving, all processors will be on the same playing field. Unscrupulous producers will loose their advantage and possibly your loved one or yourself will gain better health, factually many will. With these thoughts I'm in favor of restrictions to limit levels of salt, in processed food when adding my own is not. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 06:31:19 [Permalink]
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| I find it hilarious when people like the Tea Party or "anti-salt regulation" folks seem to feel that all of a sudden, they are under a tyranny. Go to China, Myanmar, or any number of countries on the African continent and experience what a real tyranny is. Hell, even the British during our Revolutionary times would do some hellacious tortures to "traitors". People have been so spoiled by the freedoms here that they have lost all sense of proportion. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 06:36:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
So because people don't think for themselves the government should do it for them?
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I'm not advocating that the government "think" for individuals, but numerous studies (no, I don't have links to them yet) have shown that people are their own worst enemy; that is, they make decisions that are more detrimental to their well-being than they are beneficial.
If I get time, I will try to find links to these studies.
Edit:
I don't know if these are the best examples, but these are two studies found after a quick Google search
http://www.physorg.com/news189253119.html
http://badanalysis.blogspot.com/2006/10/10-reasons-your-co-workers-make-stupid.html |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
| Edited by - Fripp on 04/21/2010 06:47:49 |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 06:37:05 [Permalink]
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(I really gotta get this whole copy and paste quote thingy down)
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Syntax fail. In this quote fail, it's because of two bracket thingy's, and a "/" in the opening command. You got "[[/quote]" instead of "[quote]". cheers SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 06:39:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
If companies don't change things to the way their customers want them then the customers won't buy the product. |
Your whole premise depend on information and alternatives always being available to all customers.
Producers are not willingly going to inform consumers on health/safety problems with their products. And even when there are regulations forcing them to to that; Heard of a thing called marketing? Why do you think producers bother with this? Just to make sure that the market is correctly informed?
I find it scary that some people think that their ideology is more important than evidence, reality and peoples lives.
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"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 06:46:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
We've got plenty of history and science that shows that humans are not generally the rational actors that free-market economists would have us believe. And sometimes, these irrational actors need to be protected from themselves. Seat belt laws have worked.
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Basically you are smarter than others so you get to decide what they eat.
"It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it." ~ George Washington
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 06:48:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
So because people don't think for themselves the government should do it for them? |
In matters of public health, absolutely. Just like with vaccination, fluoridation and other public health measures.| Sounds awefully similar to religion's role in peoples lives. |
No, it doesn't. Religions don't gather scientific evidence of harm and then try public education campaigns for 40 years before saying, "perhaps we need to step in and regulate the manufacturers."| I personally do not think the government should be regulating this. That is what the free market is for. |
The free market fails when people don't act rationally. And we can see that they aren't.| If people want less salt in their food then they should make the companies aware of their desires and muscle them into it. |
Well, there's the problem: people don't want less salt in their foods. Salt tastes good, the manufacturers know it, and put in more salt than necessary for preparation or preservation because it directly leads to higher profits. Perhaps no single product contains more salt that a person needs in a day, but too much salt from a combination of products kills.| I do not think the fact that many people can't think for themselves is any reason for the government to take over thinking for them. |
I'm sure that businesses shouldn't have the right to profit from people committing slow suicide.
People will always have the right to add more salt to their foods. That's real personal liberty. If you want to go through a pound of Morton's every month, you go right ahead and buy the salt, too.
What really surprises me if how much people want personal liberties to be passive. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 06:54:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Tyranny my ass. As long as you are free to add salt to your food, what tyranny would you be speaking of? |
For a private buisness to sell a product with legal ingrediants as they wish.
| Hypertension is a killer. Should I go down the list of potential illnesses and deaths directly linked to hypertension? And yet, the salt shaker will still be on the table. Regulating salt in prepared foods is what you call tyranny? You have the freedom to kill yourself in any number of ways, Robb, including over salting your food. No one is stopping you. But should the manufacturers of prepared foods also be allowed to kill you? How about your children? Will they be less free if they have to get used to less salt on their fries? |
How about bacon, butter, any fried food, donuts, sugar, chips, sausage etc. How do we determine where to stop? Each package says how much salt is in the product. Let me decide what is right for me and you can do what you want as well.
Here's a rhetorical question that I must ask. Why are Americans so freaking stupid? Even when the choice isn't being taken away from them, they yell tyranny. Go figure...
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But a choice is being taken away from buisness. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 07:01:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
I find it hilarious when people like the Tea Party or "anti-salt regulation" folks seem to feel that all of a sudden, they are under a tyranny. Go to China, Myanmar, or any number of countries on the African continent and experience what a real tyranny is. Hell, even the British during our Revolutionary times would do some hellacious tortures to "traitors". People have been so spoiled by the freedoms here that they have lost all sense of proportion.
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So its ok for a government to be somewhat oppressive because other governments are more oppressive? |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 07:05:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Basically you are smarter than others so you get to decide what they eat. |
No, Robb. The science says that people are killing themselves and won't stop doing so without more help than has already been provided.
People will ingest whatever they want to, including things like drain cleaner. Personal liberty when combined with personal responsibility suggests that food producers should sell the least-deadly version of their products that they can, and allow people to exercise their liberty to make their food more suicidal after they purchase it. An active role of the people in using liberties.| "It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it." ~ George Washington |
I'm all in favor of allowing people to abuse the liberty of pouring salt on their foods. I'm not in favor of salty foods being the default. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 07:06:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
I'm not advocating that the government "think" for individuals, but numerous studies (no, I don't have links to them yet) have shown that people are their own worst enemy; that is, they make decisions that are more detrimental to their well-being than they are beneficial. |
Yes, but why should you decided for others what is bad for them. I drink Dr. Pepper, not a very healthy choice but it is my decision and not anyone elses. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 07:10:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
| Companies should be able to put as much salt in something as they want. They already have to declare on each package how much is in there. |
Part of this is to regulate how much salt is used in restaurants. Here, customers have no idea how much salt is going into the food they eat.
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True, but people can ask, and if the restaurants do not want to give you the information then go somewhere else or make the decision to eat there knowing that you could be eating more salt than you want. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 07:12:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
So because people don't think for themselves the government should do it for them?
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I'm not advocating that the government "think" for individuals, but numerous studies (no, I don't have links to them yet) have shown that people are their own worst enemy; that is, they make decisions that are more detrimental to their well-being than they are beneficial.
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I still don't think that people being their own worst enemy is a reason to legislate many things. It's the individuals own damn problem if they can't make good decisions. I make plenty of bad decisions, not because I'm ignorant but because these bad decisions are usually FUN! |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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So it starts
