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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
 Posted - 04/21/2010 : 14:26:35 [Permalink]
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When fully grown adults can not know that pork, ham, sausage and bacon all come from the same animal, then yes people can eat too much salt without knowing it.
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That is the perfect example of the time when I would say "Fuck 'em".
I know, I must be morally corrupt.
Woo Hoo! I finally accomplished the art of the quote! Thanks Ricky!
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Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 14:41:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
I understand your position but the degree to which I agree depends on the definition of each individual "social problem". |
Good. I'd never say that all social problems require an equal amount of government involvement. Some problems are worse than others. Getting those damn kids off my lawn, for example, would be pretty low on the priorities list.| Actually they'd probably be cheaper. There would be no HUGE tax on them then. |
You really think the taxes are more than it would cost to illegally import them?| I think there is a huge difference between families having to uproot their entire lives because they live close to a factory and simply reading food packages. Situational ethics come into play at this point. |
Yes, but I'm thinking the difference is one of degree, and not one of kind. How much one is inconvenienced in both cases is analogous to how hard one gets punched in the nose, but in both cases, the punch lands. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 14:47:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
That is the perfect example of the time when I would say "Fuck 'em". |
I'd laugh at them, and then teach them. And then laugh at them again. Maybe.
I'm told that it's not rare around Hanukkah season for people to ask at butcher shops and delis for Kosher ham. "Oh, it'll make such a nice gift for the Goldsteins."| I know, I must be morally corrupt. |
Meh. I just think about what I'd want were I in their shoes. Perhaps not the laughing, but at least I'd understand it. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 14:54:23 [Permalink]
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| I'm told that it's not rare around Hanukkah season for people to ask at butcher shops and delis for Kosher ham. "Oh, it'll make such a nice gift for the Goldsteins." |
Now that's comedy! |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 16:54:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
Toxic gas plumes near your house encroach on you against your will. You don't eat too much salt against your will.
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If manufacturers put salt in almost all products you do. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 17:12:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
When fully grown adults can not know that pork, ham, sausage and bacon all come from the same animal,
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"Oh sure Lisa, some magical animal" --Homer Simpson |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 18:04:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
"Oh sure Lisa, some magical animal" --Homer Simpson |
Damn, I forgot all about that. I do remember the girl in one of MTV's Road Rules seasons who didn't know that sausage was pork. She refused to compete in "Bobbing for Pigs' Feet" because she was Jewish, but had had sausage with her breakfast that same day. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 23:06:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tomk80
Originally posted by Machi4velli
Toxic gas plumes near your house encroach on you against your will. You don't eat too much salt against your will.
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If manufacturers put salt in almost all products you do.
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They don't. You can go get a manufactured meal without more than the daily recommended salt amount quite easily, and not at a premium. |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
| Edited by - Machi4velli on 04/21/2010 23:07:13 |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2010 : 23:22:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Machi4velli
Toxic gas plumes near your house encroach on you against your will. You don't eat too much salt against your will. |
When fully grown adults can not know that pork, ham, sausage and bacon all come from the same animal, then yes people can eat too much salt without knowing it. |
That's because they aren't even paying attention to their diet. They are not being forcefully harmed as they would be with a toxic gas plume near their homes.
Why can we not expect such a small thing as watching a diet from citizens? We expect them to work for a living, pay their taxes and bills, return their census forms, and, hell, even clothe themselves. |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2010 : 00:00:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
Why can we not expect such a small thing as watching a diet from citizens? |
The evidence suggest we can't. |
| Edited by - Starman on 04/22/2010 00:01:15 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2010 : 01:34:12 [Permalink]
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It seems a carrot and stick approach is best for coercing socially desirable behaviors. "Sin" taxes are routinely levied against cigarettes and alcohol, indulgences/vices with known health costs associated with them (a portion of which are inevitably passed on to tax payers). While at the same time the government offers free programs to help addicts to quit their habits.
And what's wrong with this exactly? I mean, cigarettes and liquor are both still legal, so I don't really understand the libertarian argument. It seems to have something to do with nebulous appeals to "freedom," a visceral dislike of government, and the dubious belief that unrestricted capitalism can correct all of society's ills (despite the fact that this has never historically been the case whenever it was tried). But I don't see much in the way of substantial solutions beyond "fuck 'em."
Do libertarians really want to live in a society whose ethos is "fuck you, I got mine?" What happens when somebody fucks them?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 04/22/2010 01:35:59 |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2010 : 01:54:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
They don't. You can go get a manufactured meal without more than the daily recommended salt amount quite easily, and not at a premium.
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But I don't eat only a single manufactured meal a day now, do I? I eat more than just my evening's dinner. And quite a lot of foodstuff has close to the daily recommended intake, making the total intake over a day higher. That is what the regulation tries to address.
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Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2010 : 18:30:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
Why can we not expect such a small thing as watching a diet from citizens? We expect them to work for a living, pay their taxes and bills, return their census forms, and, hell, even clothe themselves. |
We don't expect anything but the very first item. All the rest are compulsory. Well, except for paying one's mortgage, but it's beyond me how that one escaped. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2010 : 21:47:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tomk80
Originally posted by Machi4velli
They don't. You can go get a manufactured meal without more than the daily recommended salt amount quite easily, and not at a premium.
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But I don't eat only a single manufactured meal a day now, do I? I eat more than just my evening's dinner. And quite a lot of foodstuff has close to the daily recommended intake, making the total intake over a day higher. That is what the regulation tries to address.
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I meant a whole day's food  |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2010 : 22:27:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
It seems a carrot and stick approach is best for coercing socially desirable behaviors. "Sin" taxes are routinely levied against cigarettes and alcohol, indulgences/vices with known health costs associated with them (a portion of which are inevitably passed on to tax payers). While at the same time the government offers free programs to help addicts to quit their habits.
And what's wrong with this exactly? I mean, cigarettes and liquor are both still legal, so I don't really understand the libertarian argument. It seems to have something to do with nebulous appeals to "freedom," a visceral dislike of government, and the dubious belief that unrestricted capitalism can correct all of society's ills (despite the fact that this has never historically been the case whenever it was tried). But I don't see much in the way of substantial solutions beyond "fuck 'em."
Do libertarians really want to live in a society whose ethos is "fuck you, I got mine?" What happens when somebody fucks them? |
I'm with HH here. We can talk about "freedom" all we want. In fact, I recall a discussion I had with an ardent libertarian who was convinced that speed limits were some sort of serious infringement. I always think about that conversation when I'm trying to turn onto a street and people are blazing by at 20+ mph over the speed limit. My friend thought that speed limits were all about him, but sometimes it's about the rest of us, and in those cases it's nice to have laws set up to protect us from selfish idiots like my friend.
Too often I hear about "regulation" like it's some bad thing, but in this day and age, does anyone really think that they'd really get a gallon of gas at the pump-- and not 0.98 gallons-- if such things weren't regulated? Or 50 mg of ibuprofen-- and not 48.6 mg? Libertarians often think that the "free market" will solve these problems, and perhaps in the long run, public outcry would stop some company from selling fraudulent cancer drugs in such a situation. But I'm much rather have regulators nip such problems in the bud rather than be the poor fuck who got duped on unregulated meds sold by some carnival huckster all in the name of "free markets" or whatnot. |
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Contradictions of philosophy
