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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2010 :  04:23:40  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Even sweeter'n penny candy:
Quack gets dose of his own medicine, nearly dies

Category: Skepticism
Posted on: April 29, 2010 12:49 AM, by PZ Myers

A vitamin D overdose is nothing to laugh about it's painful and debilitating, can cause kidney damage, and can kill. This is a case where consuming excessive amounts of a vitamin supplement can do more than help you make expensive urine, and can lead to crippling illness and death. Gary Null is a thorough quack who has been raking in the dough with you guessed it nearly worthless vitamin supplements. Now this would simply be a tragic story of one of his poor deluded suckers clients had come to harm from his magic crap food, but it's almost funny that Null nearly killed himself by eating his own supplements.

Whaddaya mean "almost?" I think those who get hoist by their own petards are side-splitters, especally in this case. Here's Quackwatch on the former fry cook and current health expert:

"A Critical Look at Gary Null's Activities and Credentials
Stephen Barrett, M.D.
Gary Null (1945 ) is one of the nation's leading promoters of dubious treatment for serious disease. He hosts radio and television talk shows; writes books and magazine articles; delivers lectures; and markets products through his Web site. According to an article in East West magazine, Null became interested in nutrition during his twenties while working as a short order cook in New York City, where he now resides. He researched the subject and wrote The Complete Guide to Health and Nutrition, which was published in 1972 and sold briskly after Null appeared on a succession of prominent talk shows. He began hosting radio shows around that time and eventually got his own show on WABC, the flagship radio station of the ABC network. Later he moved to WMCA, which broadcast Null's show on Sunday nights to many stations across the United States. For many years, he also hosted a daily show on WBAI and a Sunday evening program on WEVD in New York City. I have been tracking his activities since the mid-1970s.

Dubious Conclusions
Null is prone to see conspiracies behind many of the things he is concerned about. One of his targets has been the pharmaceutical industry, which, he says, "cannot afford to have an alternative therapy accepted." He promotes hundreds of ideas that are inaccurate, unscientific, and/or unproven. He calls fluoridation "deadly" and has spoken out against immunization, food irradiation, amalgam fillings, and many forms of proven medical treatment. His series on "The Politics of Cancer," which was published in Penthouse magazine in 1979 and 1980, promoted unproven methods that he said were being "suppressed" by the medical establishment. His lengthy series, "Medical Genocide," began appearing in Penthouse in 1985 with an article calling our medical care system a "prescription for disaster" and claiming that modern medicine has had virtually no effect on heart disease, cancer, and arthritis [1]. Other articles in the series promoted chiropractic and homeopathy, claimed that effective nutritional methods for treating AIDS were being suppressed, claimed that chelation therapy was safe and effective for treating heart disease, and endorsed several treatments for cancer that the American Cancer Society recommends against. His Web site contains a huge amount of misinformation and bad advice.

Questionable Offerings
Over the years, Null has marketed a variety of supplement products. In the mid-1980s, his catalog included: Guard-Ion (an antioxidant formula claimed to help protect athletes from free radicals the body can't control), Gary Null's AM-PM Vitamin-Mineral Formula (a "revolutionary breakthrough in vitamin preparation" that provides the nutrients needed at the best times for the body's anabolic and catabolic activities), Candida Complex (to bolster the body's defenses against yeast infection), Endurance Factor (containing "all the nutrients and enzymes that have made Bee Pollen famous"), Energy Plus (a royal jelly tablet), Rebalancer (a "cleansing formulation" for adults exposed to air pollutants, pesticides, or preservatives, or who have "internal metabolic imbalances"), CoEnzyme Q10 ("may reverse deficiencies and improve organ function, especially in the heart), Sport DMG (an N,N Dimethylglycine product to "improve cardiovascular function and to enhance the body's natural immune response system), and Gary Null's Immune Nutrients ("to nourish and stimulate immune function, not merely at a marginal level of preventing disease and degeneration, but a positive level of striving for wellness and excellence, for optimal health").

A 1991 flyer distributed at Null's booth at a health expo described Null's annual "Spring Cleansing, Rebuilding, Stress Reduction Program" at a ranch near Dallas, Texas. The week-long program included aerobic exercise, various sports activities, a fitness assessment, beauty and skin-care treatments, cooking classes, acupressure, applied kinesiology, herbal body wraps, massage, brain-wave stimulation, facials, aromatherapy, reflexology, and loofah apricot scrubs. Null sold the ranch in 1994 [2]."


Now, what with all of the folks this scoundrel has bilked and even physically harmed, I could be mean, cruel and nasty, and say that his petard didn't hiest him nearly high enough, but I will refrain. In fact, I will even give him a little credit for having enough faith in his garbage to consume it himself. But I temper that with the knowledge that if he keeps on doing it, his petard could get a lot stronger.





"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

Ebone4rock
SFN Regular

USA
894 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2010 :  05:30:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ebone4rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ha! I was reading about this one this morning also. This is truly a case of someone getting a taste of their own medicine.

I'm going to have to share this story with one of my co-workers who is big on taking supplements. You can find him in the morning and at lunch time taking them.The funny thing is that my co-worker will gladly tell you about all of the health advantages of taking these supplements....while he is eating his Mc Donalds breakfast! Another humorous thing about my co-worker is that he takes his supplements by mixing them in with his Mountain Dew.

Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2010 :  06:02:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ebone4rock

Ha! I was reading about this one this morning also. This is truly a case of someone getting a taste of their own medicine.

I'm going to have to share this story with one of my co-workers who is big on taking supplements. You can find him in the morning and at lunch time taking them.The funny thing is that my co-worker will gladly tell you about all of the health advantages of taking these supplements....while he is eating his Mc Donalds breakfast! Another humorous thing about my co-worker is that he takes his supplements by mixing them in with his Mountain Dew.

People are funny, aren't they? We all have our health hangups, and one of mine is several good doses of sassafras tea in late spring in order to "thin the blood" in preparation for summer. I know perfectly well that this does nothing for my blood, but my grandmother used to dose my brother and I every year, and to this day, if I don't brew up some spring sass, I'll miss it. Country grannies have a lot to answer for.

By all means, pass it along. Maybe it will get your co-worker to stop polluting his system with grease, bellywash and phony nostrums.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular

USA
894 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2010 :  06:14:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ebone4rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
By all means, pass it along. Maybe it will get your co-worker to stop polluting his system with grease, bellywash and phony nostrums.

Polluting? I thought grease and salt were two of the main food groups!

Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26014 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2010 :  06:37:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ebone4rock

Polluting? I thought grease and salt were two of the main food groups!
The four food groups are alcohol, caffeine, nicotine and sugar.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26014 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2010 :  12:49:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Orac's take: Too deliciously ironic for words: Gary Null hoist with his own petard.

Note the Null defenders who show up in the comments.

Also note that the comments include numbers: the stuff was supposed to have 2,000 IU of vitamin D3 (USRDA is 400 IU), but the manufacturer put in 2,000,000 IU. Acute overdose can occur with as little as 600,000 IU per day over days or months.

Null's defenders are blaming the manufacturer, rightly, but miss the larger point.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26014 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2010 :  14:11:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And here is PalMD's write-up.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2010 :  14:58:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by filthy

Originally posted by Ebone4rock

Ha! I was reading about this one this morning also. This is truly a case of someone getting a taste of their own medicine.

I'm going to have to share this story with one of my co-workers who is big on taking supplements. You can find him in the morning and at lunch time taking them.The funny thing is that my co-worker will gladly tell you about all of the health advantages of taking these supplements....while he is eating his Mc Donalds breakfast! Another humorous thing about my co-worker is that he takes his supplements by mixing them in with his Mountain Dew.

People are funny, aren't they? We all have our health hangups, and one of mine is several good doses of sassafras tea in late spring in order to "thin the blood" in preparation for summer. I know perfectly well that this does nothing for my blood, but my grandmother used to dose my brother and I every year, and to this day, if I don't brew up some spring sass, I'll miss it. Country grannies have a lot to answer for.

By all means, pass it along. Maybe it will get your co-worker to stop polluting his system with grease, bellywash and phony nostrums.




My granny made sassafras tea, too. I loved it for the flavor.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2010 :  16:01:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a friend named Mat, who emailed me links to Gary Null's show about 4months ago, vaccine shows. I knew Mat in my first grade "religious instructions" class. He sent a mass e-mailing (Oct.09) that no one should get the N1H1 flu shot. That it was so rushed it wasn't tested, it's very dangerous, Bla bla. I replyed back that I intended to get it and he freaked out, with concern. Believing it's dangerous. I did try to address each of his points but his ears were closed. He's drinking the cool aide, that the Gary Null's out there serve up with every show. Like I'm going to take Mat's (or Gary's) medical advice, or jenny Mc Carthy's. About 4 months ago I called him, he kept insisting that pharmaceuticals buried all negative drug studies etc.. The word conspiracy was used. As was the MMR vaccine. We acknowledge that we see it differently and keep it academic. I'll have write up a cover email with a link or two and get his take. Could be fun to see his reply. It won't be anything like mine. We'll see.
My take of Gary is, I'm not buying what he's selling or advising. SS

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26014 Posts

Posted - 04/29/2010 :  16:40:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sailingsoul

We acknowledge that we see it differently and keep it academic.
Why? He's not hewing to academic standards, but is instead running on fear and paranoia.

My prediction is that Mat's idea of "academic" will be links to pieces by Gary Null (or quacks like him) with a defense that they're "scientific" because the author(s) cite papers published in some sort of "medical" journals (the worst being Medical Hypotheses). Mat will not have read even the abstracts of the source material, nor made any other attempt to analyze it independent of the quacks' filtering and bias.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2010 :  06:12:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes Dave, I agree 100%. As I see it. What are my choices? There is only so much one can do, when it comes to instruction, guidance, and education. He is not using critical thinking, in spite believing he is. I will not let his hair brain notions and acceptance of other people's input, throw a stick in my spokes. I have my hands full, thank you world. If he wants to eat 2,000,000,iu doses of B3 and pay for the poison, that his decision. He will have to deal from the consequences. Just like if he bought apple computer stock 30 years ago, he would be living with the consequences now too. What I meant by keeping it "academic" is that we agreed that because we see and process the data and come out on different roads, we agreed not to conclude say "one is being a gullible moron stupid shit". Even if that is believed to be the case. What Mat and I are trying to achieve is no different than what we are trying to achieve in this forum. Have an exchange of convictions without blowing the other off.
I tried to address some of the points he brought up. Like,,,,
He believes that because so much money is involved, that the drug companies will do ANYTHING not to jeopardize there profits. I replied , "Yes there have been cases where this has happened and will happen again but that fact does not indicate that it is the case now." He said , "Yes it is".
He said "vaccines are bad and are not the caused of the drop in the number of cases in measles, polio, whooping cough,etc. The reduction rates are from a better diet and food choices.
I replied, "Vaccines prevent infections of specific deseases and since there use, that has declined. Now that there is a movement of people rejecting vaccinations, those diseases are showing a resurgence, while diets and food choices are the same. Diets are a factor in better overall health and longevity, which is still improved. but with the recent rises of infection rates due to resistance to vaccine use and no reduction of diet quality, it demonstrates the health value of the vaccines.
He mentioned "that women have had miscariages after getting the N1H1 vaccine and that's proof that is bad and should not be had"
I replied " when several millions of doses are given there will be women who get it and experience a miscarriage in the day's after, this is true. One shouldn't assume a connection based on just that. If the vaccine was the cause, you would see an increase in the miscarriage rates from the times of the year when no vaccines are being given. They have look at this and there is was increase. If there was, pregnant women would be told not to get the shot. time of the year they are give.
He said "they lie about that and the vaccine is the cause, they've lied in the past and they're lying for the money now"
I won't cover our touching on the value of anecdotal evidence having immense value in his eyes.
We went back and forth like playing a tennis match with each player on different courts. I'm not going to get all upset about his twisted beliefs based on flawed reasoning. He will have to deal with the good and bad consequences of his results, just like me and everyone.
Reaching 59 this year, he could benefit from flu vaccines now and more as he gets older but it seems he'll never get them. Will he die from the flu or phenomia vaccines can prevent? No one but time can tell. I plan on getting them each year. Whether he or I believe in woo or 100% truths, we both will reap the consequences of our actions which are influenced by our beliefs.
I've come to the conclusion it would be more beneficial to him if I try to improve his critical thinking over all than try to address this one topic in isolation. If ever given the chance too. SS

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
Edited by - sailingsoul on 05/01/2010 06:15:46
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26014 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2010 :  12:53:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sailingsoul

Yes Dave, I agree 100%. As I see it. What are my choices? There is only so much one can do, when it comes to instruction, guidance, and education. He is not using critical thinking, in spite believing he is. I will not let his hair brain notions and acceptance of other people's input, throw a stick in my spokes. I have my hands full, thank you world. If he wants to eat 2,000,000,iu doses of B3 and pay for the poison, that his decision. He will have to deal from the consequences. Just like if he bought apple computer stock 30 years ago, he would be living with the consequences now too.
If we all lived in isolation, he'd be the only one who has to live with the consequences.
What I meant by keeping it "academic" is that we agreed that because we see and process the data and come out on different roads, we agreed not to conclude say "one is being a gullible moron stupid shit". Even if that is believed to be the case. What Mat and I are trying to achieve is no different than what we are trying to achieve in this forum. Have an exchange of convictions without blowing the other off.
You don't need to blow him off to call him a moron. You can belittle him and engage his arguments.
I tried to address some of the points he brought up. Like,,,,
He believes that because so much money is involved, that the drug companies will do ANYTHING not to jeopardize there profits. I replied , "Yes there have been cases where this has happened and will happen again but that fact does not indicate that it is the case now." He said , "Yes it is".
Since most alt-med purveyors have nothing to offer humanity except a money-sink, Mat is projecting the failures of non-mainstream medicine onto the drug companies. Gary Null (for example) cannot fall back any measured successes to make sure that he will continue to make a living. Is it they who cannot afford to jeopardize their profits, which is why they never admit failure (unlike the drug companies, who have to comply with recalls and cooperate with investigations or else face complete public disaster). When alt-med sellers are faced with evidence that what they sell doesn't work or hurts people, they deny and distract.

And since the drug companies know a profit center when they see one, they're busy selling vitamins and herbs nowadays, anyway.
He said "vaccines are bad and are not the caused of the drop in the number of cases in measles, polio, whooping cough,etc. The reduction rates are from a better diet and food choices.
I replied, "Vaccines prevent infections of specific deseases and since there use, that has declined. Now that there is a movement of people rejecting vaccinations, those diseases are showing a resurgence, while diets and food choices are the same. Diets are a factor in better overall health and longevity, which is still improved. but with the recent rises of infection rates due to resistance to vaccine use and no reduction of diet quality, it demonstrates the health value of the vaccines.
Good answer, but if Mat is willing to deny the benefits of vaccines and try to convince others of rightness of his denial, then he represents a public health threat. Sure, not as large a threat as someone like Jenny McCarthy or Oprah, but a threat nonetheless. As such, I'm not sure that he deserves an "academic" response. He's actively involved in destroying the herd immunity enjoyed by my child and my child's children. We're not talking about a simple difference of opinion: because Mat isn't a hermit who only has to bear the consequences of his actions by himself, Mat is a clear and present danger to my family and your family and everyone else in the world.
He mentioned "that women have had miscariages after getting the N1H1 vaccine and that's proof that is bad and should not be had"
I replied " when several millions of doses are given there will be women who get it and experience a miscarriage in the day's after, this is true. One shouldn't assume a connection based on just that. If the vaccine was the cause, you would see an increase in the miscarriage rates from the times of the year when no vaccines are being given. They have look at this and there is was increase. If there was, pregnant women would be told not to get the shot. time of the year they are give.
Yeah, Mat's got the sort of "logic" that lets a person conclude that bread causes crime, since 99% of all criminals in jail have eaten bread.
He said "they lie about that and the vaccine is the cause, they've lied in the past and they're lying for the money now"
An evidence-free assertion that applies equally as well to the anti-vaccinationists. And in saying that to you, he's implying that you're supporting a bunch of lying liars, so he's left "academic" discussion behind.
I won't cover our touching on the value of anecdotal evidence having immense value in his eyes.
Thank you.
We went back and forth like playing a tennis match with each player on different courts. I'm not going to get all upset about his twisted beliefs based on flawed reasoning. He will have to deal with the good and bad consequences of his results, just like me and everyone.
Yes, we all have to deal with his idiocy.
Reaching 59 this year, he could benefit from flu vaccines now and more as he gets older but it seems he'll never get them. Will he die from the flu or phenomia vaccines can prevent? No one but time can tell. I plan on getting them each year. Whether he or I believe in woo or 100% truths, we both will reap the consequences of our actions which are influenced by our beliefs.
Since the insurance companies have made it clear that they'll pass all costs onto their consumers to maintain their profit margins, if Mat gets a vaccine-preventable flu or pneumonia which requires hospitalization, he's going to cost everyone who shares his insurance company a lot more money than an annual vaccination costs (and there's no chance that he's going to miscarry). If he doesn't have insurance, he's going to cost every patient at whatever hospital he goes to more money. His care will possibly be covered by Federal money, which means he'll cost us all.
I've come to the conclusion it would be more beneficial to him if I try to improve his critical thinking over all than try to address this one topic in isolation. If ever given the chance too.
Actually, I've found it better to use specific examples instead of being too general.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13470 Posts

Posted - 05/01/2010 :  16:14:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For sailingsoul, to get some terrific talking points. And everyone else, of course.

Pitfalls of Thinking: Anecdotal Evidence

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2010 :  07:32:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
[quote]Originally posted by Kil


Pitfalls of Thinking: Anecdotal Evidence
I sent Mat an email with the link and asked for his response. He called twice and left msg's. I called back at the time he said he would call me back but I had to leave a msg. I asked several questions. One was does he take any supplements. He said no, on one msg. Claiming he saw no benefit when he tried. It seems he wants to reply in voice, than email. I'll send this to Mat too. I intend to reply to dave's last relpy and will when time permits.
Thanks for the link Kil. SS

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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