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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/07/2010 : 03:39:27
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Anyone who didn't already know this also doesn't know much about human nature. We'll dip our wicks into anything we can get to hold still for it.
By Dan Vergano, USA TODAY
Modern humans, meet the relatives: Neanderthals.
It turns out, based on a new fossil analysis out Thursday, that people of European and Asian descent inherited a small amount, an average 1% to 4% of their genes, from the extinct species.
Humans and Neanderthals likely interbred 50,000 to 80,000 years ago in the Near East, concludes the international genetics team's pair of studies in the new issue of the journal Science. The research was led by German genome researcher Svante Paabo of the Max-Plank Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology. The finding splits the difference in a long-running scholarly debate over whether people are solely African in origin, or spring from "multiregional" interbreeding of early human species.
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I now await comments from the usual suspects.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 06:18:32 [Permalink]
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Filthy, I have been considering this possibility for years. Once I learned that neanderthals and homosapians most likely co-existed the answer to " what happened to the neanderthals?" became very clear. They did not go extinct, they are still living today. I am probably part neanderthal.
Do you think that the humans had to get drunk first before they bred with the neanderthals? I know it always takes me until closing time to find some women attractive. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 07:42:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Filthy, I have been considering this possibility for years. Once I learned that neanderthals and homosapians most likely co-existed the answer to " what happened to the neanderthals?" became very clear. They did not go extinct, they are still living today. I am probably part neanderthal.
Do you think that the humans had to get drunk first before they bred with the neanderthals? I know it always takes me until closing time to find some women attractive.
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When populations are thin enough, anything can look good. 
I'd long thought that they'd interbred, perhaps even commonly. The question I had, which is evidently now answered, was whether or not any of the offspring were viable.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 10:57:35 [Permalink]
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| Well 1-4% indicates it was not prolific. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend
USA
446 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 12:20:03 [Permalink]
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| This so explans my bushy eyebrows and sloping forehead. |
You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 12:59:48 [Permalink]
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Adult Neanderthal brain size ranged from as large to larger than ours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cranial_capacity
Doesn't mean they were smarter but they were likely comparable. |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2010 : 20:29:21 [Permalink]
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I've been for a long time a "Neandertals are not humans" guy. But I'm willing to be proved wrong. On the other hand, the issue of Neandertal-Human interbreeding, though likely, isn't quite as settled as it might appear at first glance. Jerry Coyne is a little cautious:| Does that mean that Neandertals interbred with the ancestors of modern humans? Probably! But there’s one other explanation that we can’t rule out: perhaps the “Neandertal” genes in modern non-African humans are simply genes that are very old and were present in the common ancestors of both modern humans and Neandertals. These then could have been transmitted to Neandertals and non-African humans, while the ancestors of modern Africans simply did not get a sample of those genes. (Note that this does not mean that, evolutionarily speaking, modern non-Africans are more closely related to Neandertals than to modern Africans!) The “differential sorting” scenario seems unlikely to me because it involves special pleading about a non-random distribution of genes between proto-human populations that occurred well before our lineage diverged from that of Neandertals. |
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 05:20:02 [Permalink]
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| The research was led by German genome researcher Svante Paabo of the Max-Plank Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology |
Except Svante Pääbo is not German, but Swedish. Next thing, they'd be saying that Einstein was American, or Adolph Eichmann was Argentinian.
Meh...!
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 06:55:29 [Permalink]
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It's got to be remembered that in those times, there were no central gathering places such as villages, and all Homo populations were scattered tribes. It is perfectly conceivable many of them never saw their sister species.
I'm sure this study will be ongoing and should be interesting.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/10/2010 : 05:13:16 [Permalink]
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As expected: AiG's News to Note is covering this topic, among others, giving them all their usual, full-of-shit analysis.
1. BBC News: “Neanderthal Genes ‘Survive in Us’” & National Geographic News: “Neanderthals, Humans Interbred—First Solid DNA Evidence”
A new genetic study has revealed that many modern humans have Neanderthal ancestry.
The study, published in the journal Science, compared the Neanderthal genome to the genes of five humans alive today. The comparison revealed that in some individuals, up to 4% of the total genome was of Neanderthal origin.
The scientists were led by Svante Paabo of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology, who was involved in the original sequencing of the Neanderthal genome (which we reported on last October). “[Neanderthals] are not totally extinct,” Paabo said. “In some of us they live on, a little bit.”
University of Wisconsin–Madison anthropologist John Hawks added, “They’re us. We’re them.” Hawks also noted that he was “surprised” at the extent of Neanderthal contributions to the modern human genome.
Still, Washington University in St. Louis anthropologist Erik Trinkhaus claimed the study may have underrepresented the extent of Neanderthal DNA in modern humans. “One to 4 percent is truly a minimum. But is it 10 percent? Twenty percent?”*
Paabo’s team also discovered that modern African populations seem to lack Neanderthal genetic elements, while individuals from regions not typically associated with Neanderthals—China and Papua New Guinea—had Neanderthal DNA. The evolutionary scientists interpret this in light of “Out of Africa” theory, the belief that humans evolved in Africa before migrating worldwide. The team speculates that Neanderthals evolved separately from modern humans but later interbred with the humans who left Africa.
The news doesn’t surprise young-earth creationists, who predicted overlap between modern human and Neanderthal genomes. Based on Scripture, creationists consider Neanderthals to have been fully human, descendants of Adam and Eve (through Noah), and therefore they would have lived in the same time and place as other humans. But factors related to both the dispersion at Babel and environmental pressures afterward resulted in people groups with different physical characteristics, including humans with “Neanderthal” characteristics.
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It's a pretty good read this week -- lots of stuff worthy of ridicule. That's good, as they've been slacking off lately and become merely tedious.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 09:30:21 [Permalink]
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| Utilizing sequences of the Neanderthal genome, a few scientists have reconstructed several display models depicting what they believe to be a typical Neanderthal female within her natural habitat. It is thought that Cro-Magnons likely saw Neanderthals this way and that the perception was likely mutual. |
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Neandertal/Human love trysts.
