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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 05/17/2010 : 15:13:46
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Michael Coren has posted again, complaing about abortion. In this one single issue, I symapthize and agree, for the most part (except where the mother's health is at stake), though I would just try to talk the women out of an abortion. Difficult, since even adopting is not easy. I appreciate that, so I wouldn't try and force anything.
Anyhow, you all know my opinions on religious people who claim to be pro-life, so I decided to confront them about it.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
Edited by - the_ignored on 05/17/2010 15:14:12
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2010 : 19:56:35 [Permalink]
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I think I would talk to the mother about a prospective abortion, if I had a trusting relationship with her, but I would keep my mind open, not defaulting to argue against an abortion.
I personally know of no place in the Bible where abortion is banned (is it?), but several where "God" either commands or himself commits the ripping of babies from women's wombs, usually as an act of genocide.
I would also ask whether a "pro-life" person is against capital punishment. Aside from Catholics following the somewhat more consistent Vatican party line, it's been my impression that most anti-abortionists are in favor of judicial killings, with some even praising the assassination of abortion doctors. Of course, Coren follows the Vatican rules, right? |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 05/17/2010 : 20:49:37 [Permalink]
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You know what they say, though: Those killed by judicial executions are (theoretically) guilty of taking lives or some horrible crime themselves, as opposed to an innocent fetus which hasn't done anything.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2010 : 00:48:26 [Permalink]
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Most anti abortion people are in favor of the current US policy of dropping bombs on "enemy combatants", regardless of the incidental civilian deaths caused.
Could probably make a fair sized list of all the anti-life things these people favor.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2010 : 14:10:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Most anti abortion people are in favor of the current US policy of dropping bombs on "enemy combatants", regardless of the incidental civilian deaths caused.
Could probably make a fair sized list of all the anti-life things these people favor. |
So we can argue against some people who hold an opinion instead of the opinion itself? "Damn those angry arrogant atheists..." |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2010 : 18:37:42 [Permalink]
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| Yeah |
>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2010 : 19:26:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
Originally posted by Dude
Most anti abortion people are in favor of the current US policy of dropping bombs on "enemy combatants", regardless of the incidental civilian deaths caused.
Could probably make a fair sized list of all the anti-life things these people favor. |
So we can argue against some people who hold an opinion instead of the opinion itself? "Damn those angry arrogant atheists..."
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What is an opinion without a person attached? I've said it before, it isn't possible to criticize an idea without also criticizing the person who holds the idea.
But Dave_W has it, I object to the hypocrisy of "pro-life" people as well as disagree with them.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2010 : 20:56:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
What is an opinion without a person attached? I've said it before, it isn't possible to criticize an idea without also criticizing the person who holds the idea. |
If you're arguing against hypocrisy only, okay, but it is not criticizing the idea at all. It's criticizing a subset of the people who hold the opinion, plus making the questionable claim that most of these people also "favor dropping bombs on 'enemy combatants,' regardless of civilian deaths caused."
I would venture that very few would support it "regardless of civilian deaths." Perhaps they admit some level of civilian deaths, or only under some circumstances, or any other number of qualifiers. |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
| Edited by - Machi4velli on 05/18/2010 21:08:50 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 07:27:38 [Permalink]
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My latest comment.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 10:58:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
Originally posted by Dude
What is an opinion without a person attached? I've said it before, it isn't possible to criticize an idea without also criticizing the person who holds the idea. |
If you're arguing against hypocrisy only, okay, but it is not criticizing the idea at all. It's criticizing a subset of the people who hold the opinion, plus making the questionable claim that most of these people also "favor dropping bombs on 'enemy combatants,' regardless of civilian deaths caused."
I would venture that very few would support it "regardless of civilian deaths." Perhaps they admit some level of civilian deaths, or only under some circumstances, or any other number of qualifiers.
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You are living in a fantasy world.
Have you not seen the legions of idiots with "support the troops" stickers on their vehicles? Have you not seen the talking head and pundit crowd, as well as politicians, call anyone who doesn't blindly support this war unpatriotic?
And clearly you have never engaged a southern conservative in conversation about the topic. Anecdotally, every single person I have talked to about this issue where I live and work, who identify themselves as republican or worse, totally think it is ok to torture other human beings and to drop bombs in "surgical" strikes (as if a 500lb bomb or hellfire missile is "surgical"). They don't care how many civilian casualties occur because they think the people nearby are guilty of associating with "terrorists".
And seriously, if you think you can criticize a person's ideas and conclusions without criticizing them.... there isn't much point in taking this further. Ideas do not exist independently from people, any criticism of an idea is also of the person holding it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2010 : 13:17:53 [Permalink]
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| The most ridiculous part of this ongoing mess is that most pro-lifers are also against the very measures that would reduce the need for abortion, things such as birth control pills or condoms, and proper sex education. Their attitude is that sex is a sin, and both mother and child should bear the consequences and suffering throughout their lives. They also seem to think that pro-choice people actually like the idea of abortion, a plain lie. No sane person likes the idea of terminating a life, I am as upset by the act as much as anyone. A pox on the lot of them. One of these days I will try to convince our local group to organize a skeptical anti-abortion fair, where we promote alternatives. Should put the fundies in a tizzy, and that's a good thing. |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2010 : 08:39:44 [Permalink]
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The reply is priceless......what a complete imbecile. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2010 : 13:23:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by astropin
The reply is priceless......what a complete imbecile.
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It appears that "priceless" response was removed. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2010 : 16:09:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Have you not seen the legions of idiots with "support the troops" stickers on their vehicles? |
You have no idea what other opinions these people have (unless of course they're also plastered on their bumper). This necessarily implies no other position.
| And clearly you have never engaged a southern conservative in conversation about the topic. Anecdotally, every single person I have talked to about this issue where I live and work, who identify themselves as republican or worse, totally think it is ok to torture other human beings and to drop bombs in "surgical" strikes (as if a 500lb bomb or hellfire missile is "surgical"). They don't care how many civilian casualties occur because they think the people nearby are guilty of associating with "terrorists". |
I have. I'm from a small town in West Virginia. There are plenty of people like this, I never said there weren't (though most were Democrats in that location, the area is roughly 85% Democrat). Some do say things like "we should just bomb the whole Middle East," but even the (relatively small in my experience) subset that says things like this, often I can put them in the shoes of civilians in Iraq and quite a lot of them will back off of that rather quickly, start to add qualifiers to their statements, etc.
Do they support torturing other human beings as a fun pastime to do in their garages? Why do they even specify surgical strikes if they don't care how many innocent people die? Why not just relentlessly bomb all of their urban centers? There are qualifiers attached to all of these.
| And seriously, if you think you can criticize a person's ideas and conclusions without criticizing them.... there isn't much point in taking this further. Ideas do not exist independently from people, any criticism of an idea is also of the person holding it. |
I didn't say you couldn't do that, I said you cannot criticize one position by pointing to another position when everyone holding the first position does not also hold the second position.
So, as I said before, you are criticizing a subset of the people who hold the opinion (or the whole set of people holding the opinion plus the other opinions you paired with it), not the idea, so you have not discredited pro-life, only pro-life paired with those other things. When I say you "aren't arguing against the opinion," I mean you're only arguing against some who hold the opinion, while there are many who you are not. If you were to discredit the idea independent of those other things which may or may not be paired with it, then you would discredit everyone holding the opinion. |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
| Edited by - Machi4velli on 05/27/2010 16:20:29 |
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"Pro-life"? We'll see
