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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2010 :  19:01:18  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Today the FDA released this:

FDA Warns Consumers of Serious Harm from Drinking Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS)
Product contains industrial strength bleach

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration is warning consumers not to take Miracle Mineral Solution, an oral liquid also known as “Miracle Mineral Supplement” or “MMS.” The product, when used as directed, produces an industrial bleach that can cause serious harm to health.

The FDA has received several reports of health injuries from consumers using this product, including severe nausea, vomiting, and life-threatening low blood pressure from dehydration.

Consumers who have MMS should stop using it immediately and throw it away.

MMS is distributed on Internet sites and online auctions by multiple independent distributors. Although the products share the MMS name, the look of the labeling may vary.

The product instructs consumers to mix the 28 percent sodium chlorite solution with an acid such as citrus juice. This mixture produces chlorine dioxide, a potent bleach used for stripping textiles and industrial water treatment. High oral doses of this bleach, such as those recommended in the labeling, can cause nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and symptoms of severe dehydration.

MMS claims to treat multiple unrelated diseases, including HIV, hepatitis, the H1N1 flu virus, common colds, acne, cancer, and other conditions. The FDA is not aware of any research that MMS is effective in treating any of these conditions. MMS also poses a significant health risk to consumers who may choose to use this product for self-treatment instead of seeking FDA-approved treatments for these conditions.

The FDA continues to investigate and may pursue civil or criminal enforcement actions as appropriate to protect the public from this potentially dangerous product.

The FDA advises consumers who have experienced any negative side effects from MMS to consult a health care professional as soon as possible and to discard the product. Consumers and health care professionals should report adverse events to the FDA’s MedWatch program at 800-FDA-1088 or online at www.fda.gov/medwatch/report.htm.



This poison is sold as a food supplement.

About the product, its inventor, Jim Humble has this to say about it:

…Take your time. Learn what you can. Read my book and you will know that a new age has come to mankind. I didn’t bring it. I was lucky enough to discover what many men were already doing, they were using MMS under different names. What I was lucky enough to discover was a way to bring the information to the general public instead of it lying dormanent in hospitals and clinics not being used. Well, I sort of invented it in that I discovered it cured malaria while I was in the jungle, but I soon found that others have been using it sparingly on certain diseases for as long as 20 years or more. The fact is, it treats almost all diseases, including the so called incurable diseases. I’m just glad I was able to bring it to the public. So now find out for yourself.
Bolding mine.


And of course, there are the sites marketing the stuff.

Testimonials abound. And there is no shortage of stuff on Jim Humble including the introduction of his latest product, MMM2.

I doubt that Jim would consider this next article to be a quality testomonial:

Death in Paradise

...Nash, 77, is a retired NASA geologist, a man of science, sceptical about the claims on the bottle. But he stayed out of it, he says, because she was ''a grown and savvy woman''.

''It went bad from the beginning,'' he wrote to friends in the days afterwards. ''From almost the moment she drank the mixture of MMS with lime juice that she'd brewed up according to the instructions … she began to be nauseated, and soon was vomiting and on the toilet having diarrhoea.

''But she thought, because the literature that came with the MMS kit emphasised that these were normal symptoms, that one just had to grin and bear it when first using the substance. How wrong we were. It turned into torture the whole day, with her getting gradually worse and worse, having incredible abdominal pains, then urinary pains.

''I'd been helping her all day, bathing her, emptying the bucket, comforting her, trying to get liquids down her, all to no avail because she could not keep anything down. Eventually, about the time it was getting dark, she started having feelings that she was going to faint. That's when I became fully alarmed. I got on the VHF radio and called for assistance.

''At that moment she suddenly went into a coma. Then I put out another radio call, this time an emergency one for immediate medical help. Fellow cruisers rushed to our boat within minutes to aid me, and for over an hour we conducted emergency CPR and administered oxygen but it, and an adrenaline shot administered by a physician who finally arrived from the village, failed to revive her.

''And she died on Windcastle around 9pm, just 12 hours after she'd taken that fatal drink of MMS...''


Please read the whole article.

There is much more out there. Let me know if you aren’t angry enough and I will post more…

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project

H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2010 :  22:58:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
How is this not considered attempted mass murder? Please tell me Jim Humble is in custody awaiting prosecution for committing an act of terrorism against the American public.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 07/30/2010 :  23:48:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by H. Humbert

How is this not considered attempted mass murder? Please tell me Jim Humble is in custody awaiting prosecution for committing an act of terrorism against the American public.


I dunno. But I found this. It's fifteen months old.


Jim Humble Is Going To Jail?


Agency is trying to take MMS off the market...
I just got a desperate letter from Jim Humble the discoverer of MMS stating that "sorry, but my name and my picture must be removed from all sites selling mms in any form. All of the jim humble approval stamps must be removed from every site selling mms."

He further states, "This must happen immediately. Any time the attack comes if my approval is on any sales site that can be used to put me in jail. This is true in most countries as well as the united states, especially in Europe. Please comply with this. It is important. This must be done immediately. Taking my name off of your site will also keep you out of jail.

"I appreciate your help in bringing mms to the world. Now is the time to change mms to nothing but water purification drops. My sites will remain in place so that people can use them. They don't lead people to other sales sites. When the time comes the authorities must see nothing but mms water purification drops. We will have to depend upon my book, radio, TV, you tube, and other internet articles to tell what mms really is.

"One other point, anywhere on your site where the word supplement is used it should be changed to the word "solution", the reason for that is the FDA objects to the word supplement, that begins to neutralize our sites. Is for your protection." End of announcement!
Read on...


Also,read the comments. Here are the last two:
Truthbagger 2 weeks ago

I don't know if MMS works, but the people in power trying to stop it is better evidence than any study could provide that it is a threat to Big Pharma.

Taylore Vance 2 weeks ago

You're right!

The big Pharma is all about them making money at our expense. They don't like to lose a buck either to some natural and almost free solution.

Keep thinking -- You are right on!








Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2010 :  00:21:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jim Humble and all those involved in "MMS" promotion have blood on their greedy hands. They are simply selling a known poison for money, and should be thrown into the slammer with all the other (usually less greedy) killers.

A system that will allow a concentrated chlorine beach to be sold for months as a "food supplement" is a failed system. The "supplement" loophole needs to be abolished.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 07/31/2010 :  02:40:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm sure he claims to, but I wonder if this Humble douche bucket takes MMS himself. If not, perhaps he should be given a healthy dose of his own "medicine." Bleach... Oy-veh!




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2010 :  07:27:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gawd Dang! Any death caused by this nonsense need to be sent to who every does the Darwin Awards. Maybe one could make honorable mention, as they are all winners in the truest sense. SS

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular

USA
894 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2010 :  08:00:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Ebone4rock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Un=freaking believable. Take a look at the disclaimer found at his informational website. http://jimhumble.biz/JH-disclaim.htm

Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2010 :  10:05:29   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

Jim Humble and all those involved in "MMS" promotion have blood on their greedy hands. They are simply selling a known poison for money, and should be thrown into the slammer with all the other (usually less greedy) killers.

A system that will allow a concentrated chlorine beach to be sold for months as a "food supplement" is a failed system. The "supplement" loophole needs to be abolished.

It's not really a loophole. The FDA regulates substances, anything they choose not to regulate can be sold over the counter. The system works pretty well really, and if we required the FDA to pre-approve everything that gets sold as a supplement before it could be sold... We'd be stuck waiting for years as they slogged through the thousands of supplements now available and we would be deprived of access to all of the supplements we currently use that are safe and actually do something for you (multivitamns, niacin, isolated protein, fish oils, there is a long list really).

It is already against the law to sell bleach as a "food supplement", and I really can't tell you why this guy isn't in prison. The "product" website even tells you, explicitly, that MMS + citric acid ---> chlorine dioxide! And they sell you a bottle of each, with instructions to mix the two and then drink the product.

Chlorine dioxide is an industrial bleach, it is used for bleaching wood pulp to make your paper nice and white and it is used in water treatment plants along with other chlorines because it is more effective at killing cryptosporidium and a couple other nasties you don't want in your water.

OSHA MSDS for chlorine dioxide.

I can't feel too sorry for anyone who has suffered ill effects from using this.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2010 :  13:46:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dude:
I can't feel too sorry for anyone who has suffered ill effects from using this.

Do you think of yourself as being part of a skeptical community with the agenda of promoting critical thinking? Or is it just yourself that you want to protect? If everyone used critical thinking there would be no need for us to promote critical thinking.

I understand how frustrating it is that some people fall for shit like this. Without enough information, just about anything can be sold to those inclined to being credulous, whether out of desperation, or ignorance. No one deserves to be hoodwinked, and while they contribute to the scam by falling for what is usually sold as an easy fix by not investigating a product that would set off all of our skeptical alarms, that doesn't mean they deserve what they get. What it means is we need to do a better job doing what we do so they won't be hoodwinked in the first place. (I take heart in the fact that the skeptical movement is growing. But we have a long way to go before we make any real dent.)

Hell, we have already agreed that a lot of critical thinking is learned behavior and not something we necessarily default to without practice.

Yeah, the victims of a scam have some responsibility in how they make decisions about their health and other matters of concern to us. And we are right to point out the dangers of magical thinking so they will be more inclined to make informed choices. Those are the people we are trying to educate. And it's the very fact that I do care that makes me sorry for those who make bad choices of this kind and the reason I am an activist skeptic.

Otherwise we can all just pat ourselves on the back and congratulate each other for not being stupid. Fuck everyone else...


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2010 :  11:55:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

Dude:
I can't feel too sorry for anyone who has suffered ill effects from using this.

Do you think of yourself as being part of a skeptical community with the agenda of promoting critical thinking? Or is it just yourself that you want to protect? If everyone used critical thinking there would be no need for us to promote critical thinking.

I understand how frustrating it is that some people fall for shit like this. Without enough information, just about anything can be sold to those inclined to being credulous, whether out of desperation, or ignorance. No one deserves to be hoodwinked, and while they contribute to the scam by falling for what is usually sold as an easy fix by not investigating a product that would set off all of our skeptical alarms, that doesn't mean they deserve what they get. What it means is we need to do a better job doing what we do so they won't be hoodwinked in the first place. (I take heart in the fact that the skeptical movement is growing. But we have a long way to go before we make any real dent.)

Hell, we have already agreed that a lot of critical thinking is learned behavior and not something we necessarily default to without practice.

Yeah, the victims of a scam have some responsibility in how they make decisions about their health and other matters of concern to us. And we are right to point out the dangers of magical thinking so they will be more inclined to make informed choices. Those are the people we are trying to educate. And it's the very fact that I do care that makes me sorry for those who make bad choices of this kind and the reason I am an activist skeptic.

Otherwise we can all just pat ourselves on the back and congratulate each other for not being stupid. Fuck everyone else...



Fuck everyone else is exactly my position! So glad you were able to discern that from my post, amazing powers of insight there.

But really, where do you draw the line? The websites selling this product explicitly tells you that you will be drinking chlorine dioxide.

Should I feel bad for people who drop their hairdryer in the bathtub? Should I feel bad for people who play with matches while standing in gasoline?

I agree that we should expose the people that operate these scams, but there has to be some level of responsibility on the part of the people who get sucked into them. If I hand you a glass of water with bleach in it, I tell you it's bleach, and I tell you it will cure your diabetes..... how much responsibility should you bear for drinking it?


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2010 :  18:56:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dude:
but there has to be some level of responsibility on the part of the people who get sucked into them.

I did not say otherwise. A scam can't work unless there are those who will take the bait that the scammer is throwing out there. But look. There really are many people out there who actually believe that the claims that were made about MMS couldn't be made if it wasn't legal to make them. They actually believe that "you can't say it if it isn't true." They are not critical thinkers. We aren't just after the scammers. We are also trying to educate those people too. And yes, I feel sorry for them. I feel bad for anyone that ignorant. They didn't mean to hurt themselves. They did something stupid because they trusted a sales pitch and read a bunch of testimonials. They aren't skeptics.

Being credulous to a fault does not mean, and I guess I'm speaking for myself, I shouldn't wonder how they got that way and feel bad for them because they are that way. As I see it, our job is to spread the news. We can debunk scammers until the cows come home and there will always be new ones waiting in the wings. It's just as important to educate people into thinking critically. That's the only way we will put the scammers out of business. But why should I care if I don't actually care about those being scammed?

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2010 :  20:36:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So if a guy was handing out cyanide, telling people it was cyanide, but that it would cure their cancer, the person who eats the cyanide deserves sympathy?

I disagree.

Same for the bleach drinkers. I might feel differently if they didn't tell you they were selling you bleach.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2010 :  22:05:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

So if a guy was handing out cyanide, telling people it was cyanide, but that it would cure their cancer, the person who eats the cyanide deserves sympathy?

I disagree.

Same for the bleach drinkers. I might feel differently if they didn't tell you they were selling you bleach.


The people who take Laetrile are desperate. I mean, they have cancer. It's a bad choice. And there is a lot of info out there that laetrile is metabolized as cyanide.

And yeah. I feel sorry for them. I WANT them to make better choices by learning to think critically.

And hey. Chemo therapy is basically taking controlled doses of poisons, right? So it's not that big of a stretch, if you happen to be credulous enough to fall for it, to think that a small amount of poison can be beneficial, even if your doctor didn't prescribe it. And then there are all of those testimonials. Anecdotal evidence rules in the New Age.

You can disagree with me. I can't force you to care about people who make ridiculously bad choices. But I see how it can happen. I've been to enough New Age Expo's to understand the thinking. It's wrong headed. Sure. It's terribly and sometimes dangerously naive. But there you go...

And what about people who smoke?

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2010 :  12:03:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Ebone4rock

Un=freaking believable. Take a look at the disclaimer found at his informational website. http://jimhumble.biz/JH-disclaim.htm


Got to love this link from his home page: "Suggestions for safe use of MMS with babies and pregnant women based on actual cases."

http://jimhumble.biz/

I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
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astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2010 :  12:06:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dude

I can't feel too sorry for anyone who has suffered ill effects from using this.



Fuck everyone else is exactly my position! So glad you were able to discern that from my post, amazing powers of insight there.

But really, where do you draw the line? The websites selling this product explicitly tells you that you will be drinking chlorine dioxide.

Should I feel bad for people who drop their hairdryer in the bathtub? Should I feel bad for people who play with matches while standing in gasoline?

I agree that we should expose the people that operate these scams, but there has to be some level of responsibility on the part of the people who get sucked into them. If I hand you a glass of water with bleach in it, I tell you it's bleach, and I tell you it will cure your diabetes..... how much responsibility should you bear for drinking it?




And I can't even begin to tell how many people have NO IDEA that chlorine dioxide = bleach.

I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 09/15/2010 :  08:43:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hat tip to Bob Lloyd!

The man who encourages the sick and dying to drink industrial bleach

More in Jim Humble and his quack MMS cure from todays Guardian:
:In the MMS newsletter (Straight Talk with Jim Humble) he outlines an innovative strategy that will allow him to spread his medical ideas across the world while evading any government interference – setting up a church:

"Look at the Catholics. Their priests have been molesting women and children for centuries and the governments have not been able to stop it. If handled properly a church can protect us from vaccinations that we don't want, from forced insurance, and from many things that a government might want to use to oppress us."

I'll give him some credit, it takes a lot of imagination to look at the Catholic church's handling of child abuse and see it as a useful example of how to run your own affairs.

And:
Most shocking, though, are his descriptions of dealing with cancer patients in Mexico and elsewhere:

"We gotta give him just enough [industrial bleaching agent] that he don't get sick but he's on the edge of getting sick! So we've got to keep him just on the very edge and therefore it's pretty intense for cancer, he needs to take it 4/5 times a day, small amounts instead of a big batch."

The case studies he presents are patients with pancreatic and lung cancer, and for some of them he claims to have followed this methodology for weeks on end. This isn't treatment, it is sustained torture. I can't even begin to imagine what his victims have gone through.


Read on. Follow the links.




Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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