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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

United Kingdom
1249 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2010 :  15:59:34  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anyone see this? It's on the history channel.

1st superhuman is a guy called Raj Mohan Nair in India, he ran various lethal currents through his body, only problem is this all took place in his house, not in any kind of controlled environment. They also tested the resistance of his body, the presenters was about 180k Ohms. Raj's was about 1.3 million ohms. Which could just be because they were in India and the Indian guy had dry hands and the American presenter was sweating. Also since they were supposedly forcing current through his body, I don't see why having a high resistance would be helpful.

2nd was Scott Flansburg, a human calculator. Which was very impressive, he seemed to be able to do complex calculations like cube roots in his head to multiple decimal places, the only thing slowing him down was having to actually vocalise the answers. A brain scan showed his brain was less active during calculations than a control. Weird and somewhat useful.

3rd was Juan Ruiz. Blind since birth who can "see" via echolocation (clicking his tongue). He could ride a bike and see and identify obstacles. Through this I just kept thinking....they need to blindfold this guy. And they actually didn't. They just took his word that he was completely blind.

4th is Dennis Rogers. Claiming to be pound for pound the world's strongest man. He looks like an average guy. First he rips a phone book in half, the presenter actually points out that this is a trick anyone can do, (I can do this too, it's all about the technique), then he goes ahead and does it, but convinces the presenter he did it in the "proper" way. Ok, then he bends a flimsy looking hammer, he rolls a frying pan. Now this is pretty impressive. I've seen legit strong men who weight 400+ pounds do stuff like that, he then bends some other tools. They wire him up to an ECG and find that his muscles generate extremely high signal, which means a lot of motor units or muscle fibres are being recruited in his body. They end the segment with him holding back a 100bhp motorbike, which again is very gimmicky. It isn't all about horsepower it's about how much is being put onto the ground at any particular time, so grip is also important, also they did a dummy run with a gauge to measure the force but used a loose rope which went taut. But for the actual feat the rope began taut and he had already braced himself. The bikes wheel just span for 15 seconds. I'm pretty sure a lot of people could do this if they ever felt inclined.

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25829 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2010 :  17:54:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

1st superhuman is a guy called Raj Mohan Nair in India, he ran various lethal currents through his body, only problem is this all took place in his house, not in any kind of controlled environment. They also tested the resistance of his body, the presenters was about 180k Ohms. Raj's was about 1.3 million ohms. Which could just be because they were in India and the Indian guy had dry hands and the American presenter was sweating. Also since they were supposedly forcing current through his body, I don't see why having a high resistance would be helpful.
They were probably just measuring skin resistance, anyway.

But, if they controlled the current, so that it always ran at (for an easy but deadly example) 1 amp, then the presenters' bodies would only have to dissipate 180 kW, while Raj would have had to dissipate 1.3 MW, because to drive the same current through a higher resistance, you have to crank up the voltage, if I remember Ohm's Law correctly.

If, on the other hand, they'd kept the voltage constant (and at 100 volts), then the presenters would have dissipated 55 mW, while Raj would have only had to dissipate 7.7 mW, which makes a lot more sense.

Probably, neither of those are true, and there wasn't a whole lot of "control" going on at all.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend

USA
446 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2010 :  17:54:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Paulos23's Homepage Send Paulos23 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I saw an earlier pilot for this a while back. Hosted by the Rubber Man (he has a genetic defect that allows him to bend both ways at the joints). It went over a man that could 'attract' objects to his body (basically very sticky). A man that can take sever cold (trains mentally and physically to do it), and a guy that can 'control' electricity (Basic physics, but looked great). I though the show had some entertainment value, but it didn't look very skeptical or scientific to me.

But then that is what these shows mostly are about, entertainment.

You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9645 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2010 :  10:31:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

Anyone see this? It's on the history channel.

1st superhuman is a guy called Raj Mohan Nair in India, he ran various lethal currents through his body, only problem is this all took place in his house, not in any kind of controlled environment. They also tested the resistance of his body, the presenters was about 180k Ohms. Raj's was about 1.3 million ohms. Which could just be because they were in India and the Indian guy had dry hands and the American presenter was sweating.
Sitting in my airconditioned room, I had 2MOhm measured from left hand to right. Licking on my fingers for moisture, I got down to 200KOhm, so your suggestion that sweating accounts for the difference is correct.
Also since they were supposedly forcing current through his body, I don't see why having a high resistance would be helpful.
Indeed. They's just up the voltage. Or break the skin. Once the skin is broken, and electrods come in contact blood, the resistance go way down and even the current from a 9v battery will get painful if shot through the arm. (I speak of personal experience! Don't ask...)



Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

United Kingdom
1249 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2010 :  06:26:55   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well episode 2 was a complete joke. There was a quick-draw guy, a shaolin monk doing an inch punch, a man who can fall from a great height into 12 inches of water and a guy who could sit in a sauna longer than anyone else. Also there was a disclaimer after the sauna guy saying that after the 2010 sauna world championships he was seriously burned and 1 other competitor died.

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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2010 :  20:17:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This should make the show, sooner or later. Another alleged Superman Saint. SS

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 08/14/2010 :  22:29:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm impressed with the blind guy who echolocates. I believe this is a genuine feat, as I've done it myself while in a perfectly dark space. I used the very same technique of clicking my tongue rapidly against my upper gum. I could easily "visualize" the walls and their distances in my mind. I did not, however, have any fine sense of objects in the room, or their identities. (I recall walking into a chair.)

I imagine that a blind person could develop a much finer sense of echolocation through practice.

Not blindfolding the guy was just dumb, a testament to the low quality of the show.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 08/14/2010 22:32:45
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astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2010 :  12:08:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He's not the only one who can echo locate either. I've seen it before with a different blind child. Not all that crazy really, but exceedingly rare in humans.

I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
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mydickens
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2010 :  01:40:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send mydickens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
JUAN RUIZ - ECHOLOCATION

I know Juan personally.

If you could see Juan’s eyes, you would know he is blind. Both of his eyes are filmed over, completely white, and bulging out slightly. It takes some getting used to, to look at his eyes. There is no way he can see out of those eyes.

Also, I have been mountain biking with Juan. Just yesterday, as a matter of fact. Yes, he is riding a mountain bike alone. We put a zip tie in the bicycle ahead of him and he follows. He tongue clicks. There are many people who use this skill. I know several of them personally. Several of them are Christians, too. Wow – skeptics – what do you say about that?

As a physical education teacher who was worked with many blind students, I know that the blind use this skill all the time. Some are better at echolocation that others. Juan is really good at it. And there are many more. One of my students picks out the difference between bushes and trees as we walk. And yes, in places he has never walked before.

I am a Christian. Thus, I find everyone's skepticism especially shameful. Try learning and investigating things before you cast doubt. It is attitudes like yours that give Christians a bad rap.
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mydickens
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2010 :  01:42:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send mydickens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

I'm impressed with the blind guy who echolocates. I believe this is a genuine feat, as I've done it myself while in a perfectly dark space. I used the very same technique of clicking my tongue rapidly against my upper gum. I could easily "visualize" the walls and their distances in my mind. I did not, however, have any fine sense of objects in the room, or their identities. (I recall walking into a chair.)

I imagine that a blind person could develop a much finer sense of echolocation through practice.

Not blindfolding the guy was just dumb, a testament to the low quality of the show.
If you could see his eyes, you would know that they didn't need to blindfold him. His eyes bulge out, are completely white, and filmed over. I know Juan personally. Your statement was dumb. Learn more before you pass judgements.
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mydickens
New Member

3 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2010 :  01:45:09   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send mydickens a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

Anyone see this? It's on the history channel.

1st superhuman is a guy called Raj Mohan Nair in India, he ran various lethal currents through his body, only problem is this all took place in his house, not in any kind of controlled environment. They also tested the resistance of his body, the presenters was about 180k Ohms. Raj's was about 1.3 million ohms. Which could just be because they were in India and the Indian guy had dry hands and the American presenter was sweating. Also since they were supposedly forcing current through his body, I don't see why having a high resistance would be helpful.

2nd was Scott Flansburg, a human calculator. Which was very impressive, he seemed to be able to do complex calculations like cube roots in his head to multiple decimal places, the only thing slowing him down was having to actually vocalise the answers. A brain scan showed his brain was less active during calculations than a control. Weird and somewhat useful.

3rd was Juan Ruiz. Blind since birth who can "see" via echolocation (clicking his tongue). He could ride a bike and see and identify obstacles. Through this I just kept thinking....they need to blindfold this guy. And they actually didn't. They just took his word that he was completely blind.

4th is Dennis Rogers. Claiming to be pound for pound the world's strongest man. He looks like an average guy. First he rips a phone book in half, the presenter actually points out that this is a trick anyone can do, (I can do this too, it's all about the technique), then he goes ahead and does it, but convinces the presenter he did it in the "proper" way. Ok, then he bends a flimsy looking hammer, he rolls a frying pan. Now this is pretty impressive. I've seen legit strong men who weight 400+ pounds do stuff like that, he then bends some other tools. They wire him up to an ECG and find that his muscles generate extremely high signal, which means a lot of motor units or muscle fibres are being recruited in his body. They end the segment with him holding back a 100bhp motorbike, which again is very gimmicky. It isn't all about horsepower it's about how much is being put onto the ground at any particular time, so grip is also important, also they did a dummy run with a gauge to measure the force but used a loose rope which went taut. But for the actual feat the rope began taut and he had already braced himself. The bikes wheel just span for 15 seconds. I'm pretty sure a lot of people could do this if they ever felt inclined.
I saw a posting on your website by someone with the tag – On Fire For Christ – being skeptic about Juan Ruiz’s echolocation. Please make sure that his email reaches On Fire for Christ.

If you could see Juan’s eyes, you would know he is blind. Both of his eyes are filmed over, completely white, and bulging out slightly. There is no way he can see out of those eyes. Also, I know Juan personally. And, I have been mountain biking with Juan. Just yesterday, as a matter of fact. Yes, he is riding a mountain bike alone. We put a zip tie in the bicycle ahead of him and he follows. He tongue clicks. There are many people who use this skill. I know several of them personally. Several of them are Christians, too. Wow – skeptic – what do you say about that? As a physical education teacher who was worked with many blind students, I know that they blind use this skill all the time. Some are better at echolocation that others. Juan is really good at it. And there are many more.

I am a Christian. Thus, I find your skepticism especially shameful. Try learning and investigating things more before you cast doubt. It is attitudes like yours that can give Christians a bad rap.

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2010 :  03:06:15   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by mydickens

Originally posted by HalfMooner

I'm impressed with the blind guy who echolocates. I believe this is a genuine feat, as I've done it myself while in a perfectly dark space. I used the very same technique of clicking my tongue rapidly against my upper gum. I could easily "visualize" the walls and their distances in my mind. I did not, however, have any fine sense of objects in the room, or their identities. (I recall walking into a chair.)

I imagine that a blind person could develop a much finer sense of echolocation through practice.

Not blindfolding the guy was just dumb, a testament to the low quality of the show.
If you could see his eyes, you would know that they didn't need to blindfold him. His eyes bulge out, are completely white, and filmed over. I know Juan personally. Your statement was dumb. Learn more before you pass judgements.
Learn to read comments before you make judgments in replies. I was correctly criticizing the program producers for not blindfolding. It's called being scientific. That simple procedure would have eliminated many doubts as to Juan's abilities. Also, you don't seem to have read that I am of the opinion that Juan's feats are likely real, and I myself mentioned doing much the same.
If you could see Juan’s eyes, you would know he is blind. Both of his eyes are filmed over, completely white, and bulging out slightly. There is no way he can see out of those eyes. Also, I know Juan personally. And, I have been mountain biking with Juan. Just yesterday, as a matter of fact. Yes, he is riding a mountain bike alone. We put a zip tie in the bicycle ahead of him and he follows. He tongue clicks. There are many people who use this skill. I know several of them personally. Several of them are Christians, too. Wow – skeptic – what do you say about that? As a physical education teacher who was worked with many blind students, I know that they blind use this skill all the time. Some are better at echolocation that others. Juan is really good at it. And there are many more.

I am a Christian. Thus, I find your skepticism especially shameful. Try learning and investigating things more before you cast doubt. It is attitudes like yours that can give Christians a bad rap.
Okay, so your "argument" essentially is that you hate skepticsm and skeptics. So effin' what? Credulous True Believers are a dime a dozen. Rejecting reason is nothing to crow about. Deliberate stupidity deserves no respect.

That some Christians can do echolocation and that therefor skeptics should somehow be embarrassed by this is an idiotic argument from bullshit. Skeptics generally agree that the senses of both skeptics and Holy Joes work very much the same way. It's in the higher level processing where you credophiles get everything wrong, as evidenced by your general attacks upon skeptics whom you don't even know and your boneheaded misreading of what they have actually written.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 11/07/2010 04:31:34
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25829 Posts

Posted - 11/07/2010 :  07:46:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Welcome to the SFN, mydickens!
Originally posted by mydickens

He tongue clicks. There are many people who use this skill. I know several of them personally... As a physical education teacher who was worked with many blind students, I know that they blind use this skill all the time. Some are better at echolocation that others. Juan is really good at it. And there are many more.
So you're saying that he's not "superhuman," like Stan Lee's show suggests, but instead he's just a normal person doing something that lots of other people do. I will certainly accept that.
I am a Christian. Thus, I find your skepticism especially shameful.
Of course you do.
Try learning and investigating things more before you cast doubt.
Actually, one should learn and investigate because of doubt. It's a healthy attitude that Christians have turned into a vice.
It is attitudes like yours that can give Christians a bad rap.
No, really, Christians give themselves a bad rap for supporting lots of evil in this world, including (but not limited to) characterizing faith, authoritarianism and tribalism as virtues.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

United Kingdom
1249 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2010 :  21:50:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I still think he was faking it.

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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9645 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2010 :  01:01:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Too bad mydickens chose not to stay around. It would have been interesting discussing things with him.

I would have liked to explore the issues he took offence with, that we never meant as offensive. Like the honest exploration of the clicking man's abilities, and methodological elimination of "distractions" and other possible explanations.

What if Jesus never drove out the demon Legion, but it was "mad sheep's decease" that made them run off a cliff. Or if they were spooked by a predator.
I'm sure Christians would see it in their interest to eliminate those other explanations.



(edited formatting)

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 11/20/2010 12:00:00
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular

USA
854 Posts

Posted - 11/20/2010 :  01:13:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Machi4velli a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by mydickens
Try learning and investigating things more before you cast doubt. It is attitudes like yours that can give Christians a bad rap.


This seems backwards...

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking

"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus
Edited by - Machi4velli on 11/20/2010 01:13:31
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