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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 11/03/2010 : 11:16:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Originally posted by Dude
Today the US proves we are populated by a bunch of fucking retards.
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What exactly is it that makes everyone retards? The fact that (in my state anyway) that the Democratic candidates seemed to have no clear vision and no plan? Are we retards because it is completely impossible to be able to tell what each candidate was proposing to solve our problems? Are we retards because we have been assaulted the past month with nothing but the candidates on both sides concentrating more on calling each other names than actually saying anything of substance?
Exactly what is it that makes us retarded? You are using the same strategy as the candidates in this election.
It's really easy to sit behind a computer and call people names. Give me some sort of fucking substance to back up your name calling.
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You paying attention to election results Ebone? Republicans did nothing but obstruct for the last two years. They did nothing but use fearmongering (Obama is a nazi, socialist, secret muslim, fascist, who wants to kill your grandmother and fuck your sister!) to stir up the nutjobs. They allowed insanely stupid people to infiltrate their party and win some primaries, they are lucky they were able to run as much damage control as they did on that topic, but we still have a bunch of retards elected now who think climate change is a lie and a conspiracy to tax, who think evolution is a myth, who hate gay people so bad they want to change the US constitution to prevent them getting married, who want to repeal the 17th amendment, who want to repeal the civil rights act, who think that the progressive tax system is overly burdensome on super rich people, who think that abortion should be illegal in all circumstances (rape, incest, even if your wife is about to fucking die...)..... I could go on.
So yeah, the US is populated by a bunch of fucking retards, as evidenced by these election results. If people can so easily be influenced to vote for these extreme candidates (who are going to act against the interests of their constituents), then I stand by my claim. We, as a country, are fucking retarded.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 11:31:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
But for now let’s stop talking how Bush increased the deficit and concentrate on how Obama is breaking Bush's deficit records. Why do you blame Bush's for the deficit but have no condemnation for Obama's deficits?
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What planet are you living on anyway?
Government spending is like navigating a river. Once Bush pointed the scow down river and ordered full flanks ahead, don't you realise what massive inertia there is which needs to be overcome in order to get the ship sailing in the right direction again?
You're fucking insane if you believe that 8 years of intentionally inflicting damage on the US economy can be undone in 2 years.
Bush spent 8 years burning down the house, and you fault Obama for clearing the grounds from rubble before the new foundation can be laid down?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 11:42:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Robb:
What the hell happened? No transparency, no working with the republicans at all for the last two years and he constantly insulted republicans. |
Oh please. The Republicans so obviously had a strategy of blocking everything the president and congress put up. One of Obama's failings is that he tried too hard for a few Republican votes. He would make the compromise, the Senate would add Republican amendments to bills, and then the Republicans would vote against the very bill that they amended. Check it out. They broke every record for filibusters.
Republican Obstruction at Work
They claim that they weren't consulted. That's a lie. Obama courted them endlessly. The Senate courted them endlessly. So much so that I thought they had lost their minds. We would have gotten a decent health care bill if it weren't for trying to get some Republicans to sign on the a Republican bill. Just about every provision in that package was first brought up by a Republican. What did they do? They filibustered it. Same for the jobs bill. Same for just about every bill the House and Senate tried to pass.
Open your eyes, Robb. It was a strategy. A Republican strategy to obstruct. And it worked. Stop watching Fox News. They are lying to you. It was the Republicans who refused to work with the Demarcates in order to win in this election cycle. Because success by the Dems would mean popularity. And they were having none of that. So not for the good of the country, but for their own political future, they blocked as many things as they could block.
What planet have you been viewing this from? They blocked bills that were their idea!!! Fox is toxic to thinking. Honest. Fox will make you stupid. Stand back and look at the last 18 months without Fox telling you what to make of it!!!
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I said this:
| I think what most Americans want is a functioning government. We are sick of the partisanship in Washington. Obama was to be the transparent president that was going to unify the country. What the hell happened? No transparency, no working with the republicans at all for the last two years and he constantly insulted republicans. It drives me crazy when both parties use terms such as Nazis, morons, tea baggers, communists etc. It is time for both parties to grow up and compromise on common ground. If the new congress can’t do it then let’s throw them out as well in two years. We wouldn’t have this much of a problem if the 17th amendment was never ratified (in my opinion). |
And you went on a rant about what a dumbass I am. My point was to say that nobody is interested in really talking in a civil manner anymore in this country. Not republicans or democrats. You proved my point. You focused on one thing I said and then started to go on a rant about fox news. It is much easier to call me a retard or foxnews drone than to talk about how we come together on some issues. To say that one party is more responsible for this mess without admitting the other party is at fault as well is deceitful.
I will state it again Americans are done with the bickering while our country goes down the crapper. I think it must start with Americans like you and I to have a conversation about our problems without insults.
BTW, your rant about foxnews rings hollow when you never say a bad word about MSNBC.
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 11:48:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Bush spent 8 years burning down the house, and you fault Obama for clearing the grounds from rubble before the new foundation can be laid down?
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Wow. What a perfect analogy.
I think that the argument could be made that the seeds for the financial meltdown were planted a lot longer than 8 years ago. I'm thinking of Phil Gramm and him spearheading the over-turning of a Depression-era legislation who's name escapes me at the moment. I'm not laying it all at his feet, but since Reagan, the right has been pushing laissez-faire, "the market is always right" capitalism since then. This has encouraged our economy to move away from goods and services and manufacturing, to an economy that is based on financial vaporware and a market gambling.
Our infrastructure is crumbling, our middle-class is disappearing, and the people who benefit the least from laissez-faire economics have been sold a load of crap, aka "rising tide lifts all boats".
But again, I lay at least half the blame on the dems. They acted like timid little mice and allowed the right to frame the argument. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 11:50:21 [Permalink]
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Robb said:
BTW, your rant about foxnews rings hollow when you never say a bad word about MSNBC.
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There is this thing called false equivalence Robb. You should go look it up.
FAUX makes shit up. MSNBC doesn't. Sure, they both often share some other attributes, emotional anchors, commentary that turns into rants, and so on.
But to call them the same is incorrect. When one of them fabricates, has anchors and commentators that spew blatantly false material on a daily basis, repeats political talking points obviously prepared for them by one political party, and contributes millions to one political party... you can't make a rational comparison between the two.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 11:51:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
But there were other major accomplishments that seem to be under everyones radar.
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Yeah, things like blocking the investigation into illegal wiretaps, and not closing Guantanamo detention centre and other similar facilities outside US borders, and not strong-arming Israel to stop its illegal occupation of West Bank territories and the blockade of Gaza.
If the Democrats in Congress hadn't been so spineless, maybe Obama would have had the backing he really needed to get things done. But then, party politics in USA doesn't work as in Europe where it's easier to close ranks for a cause. If Republicans can do it (they have managed to sabotage lots of chances of progress) why can't the Dems?
It really breaks my heart to see that you have the politicians you deserve.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:00:06 [Permalink]
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Also, let us not forget that the Bush-appointed conservative Supreme Court overturned the campaign finance limits which clearly benefited the right. The number of right-leaning ads must have tripled as a result.
Oh wait, did I forget to mention that Clarence Thomas' wife is a Tea Party activist? You don't think that there was night-time discussions between the two of them? Please, give me an f-ing break.
You can stick your fingers in your ears and shout "la la la, I am not listening", but facts are facts.
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"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:19:28 [Permalink]
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| Robb:To say that one party is more responsible for this mess without admitting the other party is at fault as well is deceitful. |
The Republicans had a strategy of obstructionism. No matter what the Democrats did, no matter what amendments they gave to the Republicans, no matter if it was even a Republican idea like the jobs bill was and most of the health care bill that was passed, the Republicans dragged their feet and filibustered.
It's very magnanimous of you to point out that both sides are at fault. The problem is, obstructionism was a strategy that the Republicans pursued. And no amount of pretending that that isn't exactly what went down will change that.
The reason I went off on Fox is I can't think of how you can view what went down and see it the way you do without it having been filtered through that propaganda arm of the Republican party. I was saying that if you use Fox as a source for what has gone on for the last two years, you will come to some completely wrong conclusions. Stupid even. I was imploring you to look beyond the rhetoric and see for yourself what went down. If you think both parties acted the same, I can't help you there. I'll grant you that the Democratic party is partly responsible for the mess we are in now. But I will not grant you that the Republicans have tried nearly as hard as the Democrats have to get us out of it...
Now that the Republicans have the House, it's my belief that they will be forced to start working with the president or they risk blame during the next election cycle. But up until now, it's been "No" all the way...
And as Dude said, MSNBC may be guilty of liberal journalism. But they don't make up their own facts. Fox does. And they do it regularly.
As for what Fox is about, here's a blast from the past that is still true today.
Jon Stewart calls Fox out: “Not even close to news”
Sometimes it takes a comedian to cut to the chase...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:28:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
My point was to say that nobody is interested in really talking in a civil manner anymore in this country. Not republicans or democrats. |
Fzzzt! There went another irony-meter.
As long as people like you are delusional and keep repeating lies and made up shit, talking in civil manner is pointless. Even if you and I are civil with each other, I will still not be able to convince you that pigs cannot fly. You don't seem interested in examining if your basic and foundational premises on US politics are based in reality or not. We have tried for ages to point out to you that what you are saying does not compute, but you're totally ignoring us, which isn't very civil in the first place. Face it, the incivility started with you.
What point? That people get annoyed when you're not listening. You show no indication that you are considering, or mentally processing whatever points we are trying to show you. You just parrot right-with talking points.
| To say that one party is more responsible for this mess without admitting the other party is at fault as well is deceitful. |
Now you're just making shit up. Again. (and you wonder about the level of civility... That's rich!)
Several of us have faulted the Democrats. For failing to capitalise on the majority they had the first two years.
I will state it again Americans are done with the bickering while our country goes down the crapper. |
And the sad yet ironically hilarious thing is that a majority of the voters turn to Republicans and Tea Partiers to fix it. Dude is correct: At least a quarter of the country is certifiably insane.
I think it must start with Americans like you and I to have a conversation about our problems without insults. |
How about first agreeing on definitions for reality. You know, the world that exists objectively independent of your delusions? Without us sharing a common definition of reality, talking about stuff is meaningless.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:34:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
I think what most Americans want is a functioning government. We are sick of the partisanship in Washington. Obama was to be the transparent president that was going to unify the country. What the hell happened? No transparency, no working with the republicans at all for the last two years and he constantly insulted republicans. It drives me crazy when both parties use terms such as Nazis, morons, tea baggers, communists etc. It is time for both parties to grow up and compromise on common ground. If the new congress can’t do it then let’s throw them out as well in two years. We wouldn’t have this much of a problem if the 17th amendment was never ratified (in my opinion).
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Unfortunately, based on what the republican leadership had to say this past weekend we are likely in for 2 more years of the same. I believe it was on the Daily Show where I saw a few clips where "will not compromise" or "no compromise" was said. If your position is "no compromise", then what sense of cooperation can there possibly be. Agreeing 100% with republican extremism is not a compromise.
We are not likely to agree on the rest of this, but the republican have got to own their fair share of your too partisan criticism. The people of this country were poorly serve by the republican leaderships whose primary goal was to ensure that Obama and the democrats were not succseeful. They did more harm than good and were rewarded. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:36:39 [Permalink]
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originally posted by Fripp
This has encouraged our economy to move away from goods and services and manufacturing, to an economy that is based on financial vaporware and a market gambling.
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It has always boggled my mind how anyone can figure that an economy can work without having anything tangible as it's source.
Hemp Hemp Hooray! Legalize today!
Oh shit...the majority doesn't want that either. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:38:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by Fripp
Originally posted by filthy
The up-side, if there is such, is that perhaps the electorate will finally wise up.
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That's the funniest thing I've heard in months. Pass me whatever you're taking...
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Logical fallacy: Quote mining. 
| The up-side, if there is such, is that perhaps the electorate will finally wise up. I rather doubt this, but we all love a good fantasy, don't we? |
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I know. Just trying to find some humor in the situation.
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I know. If it's any consolation, it gave me a chuckle.
The Republicans are and have been, since Bush slithered out of office anyway, wheezing about "cutting spending." without much specification as to where & how. But during Bush, nary a peep about fiscal responsibility from them -- or the Demoasses either, for that matter.
I await the specification.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:44:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
The Republicans are and have been, since Bush slithered out of office anyway, wheezing about "cutting spending." without much specification as to where & how. But during Bush, nary a peep about fiscal responsibility from them -- or the Demoasses either, for that matter.
I await the specification.
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Read what Marsha Blackburn from Tennessee said about "cutting spending across the board". I quoted her early in this thread. This is the precise disconnect with reality that makes the tea partiers/repubs such a train wreck. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 12:58:44 [Permalink]
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No conversation about spending cuts is ever going to happen. The GOP won't put defense spending on the table, and none of them (repub or dem) will seriously put cuts to medicare or social security on the table.
Why they won't do it is an interesting conversation though. It's political suicide in their next primary. Why? Because people are fucking retarded. 15 second ads that denounce you as weak on defense or that have you saying you want to cut medicare will make you unelectable in your next primary. People can't be bothered to listen to the very good reasons for changing those programs, like we are not facing a global threat from the USSR any longer and so don't need to spend $1trillion a year on guns/bombs/nukes/etc. Like changing the social security retirement age because people are living much longer, like making a real effort to eliminate fraud and waste from medicare and social security... You can't make those points in a 30 second ad.
What we need to do is make political parties illegal. Ban them entirely, along with all the various PACs and other bullshit that drives billions of dollars into political campaigns. Reform elections so that if you don't get 50% +1 vote, you don't win.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2010 : 13:21:12 [Permalink]
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Robb:
I will state it again Americans are done with the bickering while our country goes down the crapper. I think it must start with Americans like you and I to have a conversation about our problems without insults. |
Me too. But you won't get there if you open this way:
Robb:
We are sick of the partisanship in Washington. Obama was to be the transparent president that was going to unify the country. What the hell happened? No transparency, no working with the republicans at all for the last two years and he constantly insulted republicans. |
See, that's what set me off. Obama did all he could do to work with the Republicans. So much so that it pissed most of us liberals off. So did the Senate Democrats. Do you know why we see the dems as gutless? Because they wanted bipartisan support above strong solid legislative bills. They bent over backwards to get votes that they were not going to get because the Republicans had no intention of working in a bipartisan way. If our starting point is based on an untruth, where will that lead us?
By all means, let's have a civil discussion. But lets not premise it on falsehoods. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Election day
