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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 07/21/2011 : 17:51:29
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http://vibeghana.com/2011/07/19/ghana-police-ordered-to-arrest-all-gays/
Basically the media reported that there were 8,000 gays in the region and in response the Christians and Muslims got to work pressuring the government to do something. And they got their wish. Now all the gays are being rounded up. It is said that this is to test the current laws against homosexuality. Where will they put all these gay people once they've finished arresting them all? Mass grave seems rather likely, whether they are formally sentenced to death or murdered slowly through inhumane prison conditions.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Edited by - marfknox on 07/21/2011 17:53:18
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 18:57:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
http://vibeghana.com/2011/07/19/ghana-police-ordered-to-arrest-all-gays/
Basically the media reported that there were 8,000 gays in the region and in response the Christians and Muslims got to work pressuring the government to do something. And they got their wish. Now all the gays are being rounded up. It is said that this is to test the current laws against homosexuality. Where will they put all these gay people once they've finished arresting them all? Mass grave seems rather likely, whether they are formally sentenced to death or murdered slowly through inhumane prison conditions.
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Yikes! |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2011 : 20:45:44 [Permalink]
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| And it wouldn't even be considered genocide by the U.N. since homosexuals are not a protected group. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2011 : 12:36:49 [Permalink]
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| Brought to you by Religion and it's morally superior bastard children. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Hal
Skeptic Friend
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2011 : 12:49:04 [Permalink]
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| The comments on that article are... interesting. |
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King Jr.
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2011 : 13:32:03 [Permalink]
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I'd argue that it is not just religion doing this. Hardly any Christians in the United States and other developed nations would advocate the arrest of homosexuals anymore, much less capital punishment for homosexual behavior. Why is that? What in the history and current state of Ghana has lead to this? I'm not saying religion is off the hook, it is certainly a major player. But not the only one.
Editing to add: also consider that in the past the USA and other developed nations have been less tolerant of homosexuality, and that intolerance, while justified by religion, was not exclusive to religion. Ayn Rand was a big homophobe. And atheists from the rural south today are much more likely to be homophobic than atheists in more urban and northern parts of the United States. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 07/22/2011 13:34:22 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2011 : 14:16:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
I'd argue that it is not just religion doing this. Hardly any Christians in the United States and other developed nations would advocate the arrest of homosexuals anymore, much less capital punishment for homosexual behavior. Why is that? |
US Christians were largely responsible for Uganda's new law mandating the death penalty for being gay.
Right here at home we have things like advocating for a new civil war in response to nothing more than teaching kids about LGBT role models. I don't have time to find more examples right now, but there are plenty of US Christians who do think that gays deserve the death penalty or at least forced "re-education." These people are loud and find the hosts of Christian radio and other media inviting them to be louder. My only point here is that it's not "hardly any" people in the US who hold such barbaric attitudes. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Judge Bromley circa 1612
New Member
United Kingdom
43 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2011 : 16:46:06 [Permalink]
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You beat me to it Dave. There was a documentary on the BBC a few months ago about Uganda wherein a gay journalist from the good old UK investigated it and interviewed the minister responsible for this law. He was nearly arrested when the authorities realised he was gay. He got out just before he was due to be arrested. Once again religious zealots are behind this law.
Check this video out for a glimpse of Chrisitan compassion and understanding: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjnrLt3VuSM
I just have to mention that in the video I mentioned there was a Ugandan girl who just happened to be a lesbian . She had been arrested and thrown into prison for her troubles. There she was raped and infected with HIV.
Best wishes to all .
Judge Edward Bromley circa 1612 ( friend of witches ,fundamentalist religious zealots, pseudoscientists,frogs dogs and bungee jumpers) Only joking about the last three I really do like them. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2011 : 17:33:55 [Permalink]
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Dave: | US Christians were largely responsible for Uganda's new law mandating the death penalty for being gay. |
I am well aware of "The Family"'s influence in creating the anti-gay bill in Uganda. Are you aware of all the mainstream Christian groups that have vocally opposed the bill?
| Right here at home we have things like advocating for a new civil war in response to nothing more than teaching kids about LGBT role models. |
Yes, and plenty of Christians and Christian groups that have been advocating for gay marriage, legal protections to give gays equal rights, and for programs such as the teaching LGBT history in public schools. The clear TREND in the developed world is moving toward equal rights for gays, even in the United States where the majority identifies as Christian. I stated that MOST Christians in the first world would not support the arrest and much less capital punishment for gays, and that is correct. Are you disputing that?
| I don't have time to find more examples right now, but there are plenty of US Christians who do think that gays deserve the death penalty or at least forced "re-education." These people are loud and find the hosts of Christian radio and other media inviting them to be louder. My only point here is that it's not "hardly any" people in the US who hold such barbaric attitudes. |
There are many (although increasingly falling into a minority) Christians who are anti-equal rights for gays. But there are hardly any who support the arrest, imprisonment, and the death penalty for homosexuality. Please direct me to any that isn't totally fringe. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2011 : 18:47:42 [Permalink]
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Yes, the Family connection in Ughanda was what I was thinking of. Originally posted by marfknox
I'd argue that it is not just religion doing this...I'm not saying religion is off the hook, it is certainly a major player... But not the only one. |
What other "major" player or player of any kind can you think of? I can't think of any other possible source besides it offends God. Other than maybe their choice of colors and dress are that upsetting to the fashion police but straight men would be in greater risk if that was the case. I'm a blank to what else it could be. I suppose there could be something but unless identified by anyone I can't consider it. SS
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There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2011 : 08:16:54 [Permalink]
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SS wrote: | What other "major" player or player of any kind can you think of? I can't think of any other possible source besides it offends God. Other than maybe their choice of colors and dress are that upsetting to the fashion police but straight men would be in greater risk if that was the case. I'm a blank to what else it could be. I suppose there could be something but unless identified by anyone I can't consider it. |
It depresses me that this question is even seriously posed on a forum of better-than-average educated skeptics. If other factors weren't at play, then the influence of religion would be the same across societies and history. It is not. The fact is, social circumstances shape religion at least as much as religion shapes social circumstances.
To answer your question:
Sexism plays a huge role. You don't have to be a brain surgeon to realize that women's rights are inseparable from gay rights. The more strongly a society enforces male/female roles, the more perverse homosexuality will seem to people in that society. And while sexism is also perpetuated by religion, the roots of sexism go beyond the foundation of Islam and Christianity, and the prevalence of sexism extends beyond religious institutions or any particular religions. EVERY human society has grappled with sexism. It has always been a part of the human condition for reasons involving biological differences between men and women as well as customs.
Poverty and ethnocentricism also play a huge role. It is clear from the way homosexuality is written and spoken about by anti-gay authorities in Uganda and Ghana that they view not only acceptance of homosexuality, but homosexual orientation itself as something that is growing and spreading largely from Western societies. Much of their attack on gays in their own country is thought of as protecting their own cultural identity. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2011 : 08:19:07 [Permalink]
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A little more on sexism in Ghana: http://www.iheu.org/node/2439
I think it is easy to forget how sexually liberated the USA is compared to many parts of the world. And again, in places where male/female differences are enforced not only by social norms, but by laws, homosexuality is going to seem quite perverse. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2011 : 23:27:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Poverty and ethnocentricism also play a huge role. It is clear from the way homosexuality is written and spoken about by anti-gay authorities in Uganda and Ghana that they view not only acceptance of homosexuality, but homosexual orientation itself as something that is growing and spreading largely from Western societies. Much of their attack on gays in their own country is thought of as protecting their own cultural identity.
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That's an interesting take on it. But aren't Christianity and Islam also threats to their cultural identity? |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2011 : 09:33:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
Originally posted by marfknox
Poverty and ethnocentricism also play a huge role. It is clear from the way homosexuality is written and spoken about by anti-gay authorities in Uganda and Ghana that they view not only acceptance of homosexuality, but homosexual orientation itself as something that is growing and spreading largely from Western societies. Much of their attack on gays in their own country is thought of as protecting their own cultural identity.
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That's an interesting take on it. But aren't Christianity and Islam also threats to their cultural identity?
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They don't see it that way. They see it as protection of their current culture. Not the one that was altered or destroyed by religious missionaries and other outside influences. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2011 : 09:49:16 [Permalink]
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OFFC wrote: | That's an interesting take on it. But aren't Christianity and Islam also threats to their cultural identity? |
Huh? Depending on whether you are in the north or the south, Christianity and Islam are the two major religions in Ghana. (In Uganda the vast majority is Christian, with a significant Muslim minority as the #2 religion.) You have to go back centuries to a time when Ghana was not Christian/Muslim. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2011 : 09:53:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
OFFC wrote: | That's an interesting take on it. But aren't Christianity and Islam also threats to their cultural identity? |
Huh? Depending on whether you are in the north or the south, Christianity and Islam are the two major religions in Ghana. (In Uganda the vast majority is Christian, with a significant Muslim minority as the #2 religion.) You have to go back centuries to a time when Ghana was not Christian/Muslim.
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And how far do you have to go back before you find there are no gays? |
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Ghana is rounding up the gays
