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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
 Posted - 07/26/2011 : 13:01:28
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I have recently discovered this wonderful blog: http://skepticalob.blogspot.com/
Before reading this I had no idea how extreme the fringes of the "birth wars" had actually gotten. To get a sense of how nuts some people have gotten about championing natural childbirth as superior, Google the "freebirth movement". I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but it is hard to believe that there is a whole movement of women who are willing to risk their health and the life and health of their child in order to have a more beautiful and fullfilling birth experience. WTF? Birth sucks. It is a means to an end, people!
Dr. Amy's (the skeptical OB) blog interests me in particular because I was initially drawn to natural childbirth while pregnant with my daughter in 2009, and I did end up going through a birth center with midwives.
My motivations were unique - I suffer from a very annoying medical phobia. Most visual cues, smells, and sounds unique to medical settings trigger sometimes rather dramatic anxiety attacks in me. Even if I'm merely visiting someone else in a hospital, I am likely to experience minor tremors, lose the ability to control one of my hands, lose my ability to look people in the eye, be unable to speak clearly, and in many cases I am unable to speak at all. It is a pain in the ass, to say the least. So with that out of the way...
The Birth Center in Bryn Mawr was recommended to me by several people, and when I checked it out it seemed quite legit. They used the phrase "evidence-based medicine" proudly, which was music to my ears. They emphasized that a Birth Center is a place for women who are low risk, and that they do not even take on clients over a certain age, weight, or who are having multiples or who have had a previous c-section. Again, all music to my ears. The thought that I could get through this whole pregnancy thing without ever stepping foot in a hospital or dealing with a person in a white coat sounded damn good to me. And indeed, 80% of the Birth Center's clients give birth at the center, and mom and baby go home within 24 hours afterward. Sounds so nice, eh?
Alas, I wasn't in the 80%. I had complications that meant going over to the excellent hospital across the street. There I continued to have excellent care from both midwives and an OB, and many nurses. C-sections suck (particularly the recovery), but in the end who cares if you end up with a healthy kid and mom? I was definitely left with a positive impression of giving birth in a hospital, even if I still have my stupid phobia.
Now I'm pregnant again, and things are WAY more complicated because now if I want to do natural childbirth I'm classified as "VBAC" (vaginal birth after c-section), something which has become a topic of controversy for several reasons. Dr. Amy lays out what is really at the heart of the controversy well in this post. Being VBAC, I now have added risks.
Initially I called the Birth Center to ask them what they recommend for care. Among a few hospitals with midwives, they also suggested homebirth. I was aghast! I thought, Are you fucking kidding me? 2 out of 10 low-risk pregnancies end in complications; given my status, why the fuck would I even consider giving birth at home with only a midwife and the nearest hospital at least a 10 minute drive away? Just the suggestion of homebirth greatly lowered my level of trust in the Birth Center, and sent me into a temporary panic, given my aversion to traditional medical environments. It also confirmed a feeling I occasionally had during my experience at the Birth Center in 2009. Sometimes things that sounded nice but were really rather dumb were said in birth class (Such as "Trust birth." and "Your body knows what to do." Gee, I guess all those women who died in childbirth throughout most of human history and in countries without decent medical facilities just needed to trust nature more!) But these hokey statements were always made by other staff, NOT the CNMs (certified Nurse Midwives.)
Also, I largely trusted the whole operation based on information about how the US infant mortality rate is relatively high and that the percentage of c-sections are also higher than the WHO recommends, and that in first world countries where there is more natural childbirth practices, the infant mortality rate is lower. Dr. Amy's blog counters these claims rather effectively, particularly in this entry.
Fortunately I have found a CNM with priviledges at a good hospital nearby. Since I'm an ideal candidate for VBAC, I'll be attempting it with all the precautions of electronic fetal monitoring, being IV ready, and having an OB in house in case of need for emergency c-section. I'm sure it'll be a hellish experience no matter how it goes, and I'll be a mess. But odds are, I'll walk out of there with another healthy kid.
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"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Edited by - marfknox on 07/26/2011 13:02:28
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alienist
Skeptic Friend
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2011 : 15:23:08 [Permalink]
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I love being in hospitals as long as I am not too sick. don't let me get near any medical equipment....
when I had my baby, I didn't want to go through too much pain with childbirth. So I got an epidural.
In any case, what I did find, is that the nurses were good and sympathetic and helped me to relax. Nurses can really make a difference for a patient no matter where the patient is. Unfortunately, I found the lactation nurses really annoying and alarmist. Oh, well.
I hope everything goes well for you. Is the baby a girl or a boy? |
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well! - Joe Ancis |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2011 : 15:36:55 [Permalink]
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I wish I had some advice for you marf but I don't know nuthin' 'bout birthin' no babies!
Congratulations! |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2011 : 17:11:44 [Permalink]
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| I hope everything goes well for you. Is the baby a girl or a boy? |
I like to be surprised. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2011 : 17:57:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
| I hope everything goes well for you. Is the baby a girl or a boy? |
I like to be surprised.
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When is the expected ETA? I expect it can't be soon enough! Best wishes and smooth sailing through this Marf. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2011 : 19:41:20 [Permalink]
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Due December 10.
I appreciate the well wishes. Although I didn't mean to make the thread so much about me. I was more hoping there might be some conversation about the birth wars. Does anyone else have any experience with the debate between natural childbirth advocates and the medical establishment? Is this a topic addressed in skeptic circles, or is it an area of skeptical interest that has fallen under the radar of the mainstream skeptic publications and conferences? |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2011 : 20:05:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Due December 10.
I appreciate the well wishes. Although I didn't mean to make the thread so much about me. I was more hoping there might be some conversation about the birth wars. Does anyone else have any experience with the debate between natural childbirth advocates and the medical establishment? Is this a topic addressed in skeptic circles, or is it an area of skeptical interest that has fallen under the radar of the mainstream skeptic publications and conferences?
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Under the radar I guess. Michelle and I have talked about this stuff. And I went through The Bradley Method training when my ex-wife was pregnant with Zachary and concluded that it was a bunch of junk.
If you have the time and want to write an article about it for SFN, that would be great! |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2011 : 20:31:49 [Permalink]
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| I was thinking of writing a post about it on my blog. Could the same article also be published on the SFN website so I don't have to write two articles on the same topic? |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2011 : 20:45:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
I was thinking of writing a post about it on my blog. Could the same article also be published on the SFN website so I don't have to write two articles on the same topic?
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Yes. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2011 : 05:01:48 [Permalink]
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I have nothing to add except that I am reminded about how closely we live to each other. I live in Exton and work in Spring City. As the father of two daughters (ages 16 and 13), I wish you all the best and soon you'll know the joys of being a parent.
Edited to add: Sorry, I didn't read your OP closely enough. You are already a parent. Best of luck to you anyway. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
| Edited by - Fripp on 07/27/2011 05:03:36 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2011 : 06:01:59 [Permalink]
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I have seen a lot of stuff on natural childbirth and VBAC. With my (now-ex) wife's pregnancy, her first child was delivered by emergency c-section. We discussed this with the obstetrics group. I also did some research on risks associated with VBAC and it depended on the type of c-section performed. We felt the risks of the old seam tearing was too great and insisted on another c-section. All but one of the obstricians were receptive to the idea since I backed it up with research that I cited. The one insisted that he was the doctor and knew better. I told the group that if he got within 50 yards of her in the birthing room I would personally pitch him out a window.
With a previous c-section, you have a higher risk of complications. Out here, Elmhurst Hospital made a brand new (circa 1995) maternity ward. The beds were a lot nicer. The smell of disinfectant was not present (although the place did smell and look clean) and the maternity ward was fairly close to the surgical suite. Just in case.
You might find a cooperative practice with on site surgical facilities near you. The CNM's in your area may know of some. (Ask them a question on where they would go if they were you. You'll likely get a referral to a damn good provider.)
I'd suggest touring the place before the happy day arrives so you know what to expect. It can help you cope with the phobias you have if you know what you have to deal with. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2011 : 08:40:12 [Permalink]
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Val wrote: | The one insisted that he was the doctor and knew better. |
Was this doctor suggesting a different course of action? How long ago was this? In her articles on VBAC, Dr. Amy talks about how she used to regularly offer VBAC to patients, and why many doctors aren't even able to offer it anymore and the rate of VBAC has plummeted in recent years, even among woman like me who are good candidates for it. As much as I'm in favor of the rate of VBACs going back up (to cut on medical costs and unnecessary surgeries) I totally think it is a woman's prerogative to get a c-section again, even if she is low risk, if her fears of a possible uterine rupture are great. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2011 : 10:47:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Val wrote: | The one insisted that he was the doctor and knew better. |
Was this doctor suggesting a different course of action? How long ago was this? In her articles on VBAC, Dr. Amy talks about how she used to regularly offer VBAC to patients, and why many doctors aren't even able to offer it anymore and the rate of VBAC has plummeted in recent years, even among woman like me who are good candidates for it. As much as I'm in favor of the rate of VBACs going back up (to cut on medical costs and unnecessary surgeries) I totally think it is a woman's prerogative to get a c-section again, even if she is low risk, if her fears of a possible uterine rupture are great.
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About 10 years ago. The doctor was insisting on VBAC when we had done research and felt the type of c-section the ex got had a larger incidence of uterine rupturing than the normal low risk.
The doctor felt he could override our decision. I felt he needed to fly out the window. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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The Skeptical OB on the birth wars
