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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26013 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2011 :  07:53:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Not that your target is not worthy of scorn, but there are far more insidious belief systems poisoning young and old minds today than the silliness called "New Age".

That obviouslly is an opinion and is open to contest. I don't want to be seen as offering a fact claim.
But you did, since you didn't qualify your opinion with any sort of probability. You simply declared "there are" without any hint of agnosticism. Claiming it's "open to contest" doesn't add any uncertainty, since everything is "open to contest" by default.

However, I happen to agree with your declaration of fact, but the real focus of objections to your comments should be on what marf is talking about. I think feeding starving humans is much, much more important that saving whales from over-hunting, but I wouldn't fault anyone for donating their resources to the latter efforts like you implied some sort of fault in Walter for focusing on Newage nonsense instead of fighting something "more insidious." All of these battles need to be fought, so I'll only complain about someone's priorities when they're in diametric opposition to mine. It's far too arrogant and short-sighted to think that one's own hobby horse should be getting all the attention.

Hell, I used to even think that it was a bad idea to have multiple groups with the same goals, since that would split available resources and prevent big projects from ever getting off the ground. But the fact that those different groups all had different plans and milestones and secondary routes for reaching the main goal changed my mind, since diversity of effort is required when the outcome of any one method is uncertain.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2011 :  08:30:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hope I didn't come across as too light on Catholics. I think the Catholic Church does a tremendous amount of harm to people, especially its own adherents, and when American Catholics do things like tend to use birth control more than non-Catholics, I think that is in spite of the Church.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2011 :  09:01:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bill:
It appears to me that this assumptive alone would firmly define "New Age" as a religion, and a pretty conventional one, at that. Is there really any question in your mind regarding this self-evidence?

Yes and no. There is no “Church of the New Age” that I know of. There is a smorgasbord of ideas to choose from, so in reality, if the New Age does become your religion, it’s often a custom made religion of one, or it could be a cult based around UFO’s like the Heavens Gate, or it could be based around psi, like Spiritualism is, or any number of things that are borrowed from all over the place. Hinduism and Buddhism are generally held in high regard, for example, and some aspect of those religions, like the idea of reincarnation may be lifted. Some New Age followers are mainly interested in alternative medicine and health and never actually leave whatever the religion is that they grew up with.

Words like charkas and chi are thrown around a lot and of course there is a whole host of pseudo-scientific claims that are not necessarily religious in nature, but have found a home in the New Age, because of the tendency of New Agers to view those claims uncritically. So when taken as a whole, to call it “conventional” is hardly the case. Hell… Even talks by David Icke and his New World Order conspiracy claim that alien lizards are running the show down here are a draw at New Age gatherings. One common thread is they are anti establishment. That is, whatever it is they choose to believe tends to be contrary to established science, politics and religion.

(Come to think of it, I should do a whole Kil Report on the subject of the loose an affiliation of ideas, some that even contradict other ideas coming out of the same movement that makes up what we call the New Age.)
Bill:
As far as the harm wrought by the promulgation of horsecrap like "New Age", I would suggest that age-old superstition like classic Catholicism has done vastly more psychological and societal damage over the years than New Age could possibly have inflicted in its relatively short tenure as a latter-day religion.

Well… We can’t do everything. There are whole organizations that are mainly concerned with the problems of religion, like the Richard Dawkins Foundation. But I wouldn’t be so quick to discount the harm that the New Age is doing. The list of completely preventable deaths and illness’s due to bad New Age choices regarding medical care is growing. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.
Bill:
Not that your target is not worthy of scorn, but there are far more insidious belief systems poisoning young and old minds today than the silliness called "New Age".

Name one. Anti vax will lead to a full blown health crisis if not stopped. I get the impression that you think the New Age is just promoting goofy ideas that are in the long run, harmless. But that’s far from the case.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Walter
New Member

6 Posts

Posted - 09/08/2011 :  09:03:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Walter a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Merde...This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put! (WC).
xxxxxxx
Your bilingual homeland should brush up a bit on the niceties of the mother tongue before awarding gold medals to one who is dangling prepositions like the example above.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2011 :  00:48:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave.....

This is the sort of nonsense up with which I shall not put.

Fowler:
It is a cherished superstition that prepositions must, in spite of the incurable English instinct for putting them in late... be kept true to their name & placed before the word they govern. ‘A sentence ending with a preposition is an inelegant sentence’ represents a very general belief. One of its chief supports is the fact that Dryden, an acknowledged master of English prose, went through all his prefaces contriving away the final prepositions that he had been guilty of in his first editions...
Two dozen examples of classic authors dangling their prepositions later:
If it were not presumptuous, after that, to offer advice, the advice would be: Follow no arbitrary rule, but remember that there are often two or more possible arrangements between which a choice should be made; if the abnormal, or at least unorthodox, final preposition that has naturally presented itself sounds comfortable, keep it; if it does not sound comfortable, still keep it if it has compensating vigour, or when among awkward possibilities it is the least awkward.
My sincere thanks to you for swallowing the bait, hook, line, and sinker up to impalation upon the rod! My timid effort to stir up a little rant defending the abuse of English worked better than I had dreamed it would.

Why, exactly, should I give a God Damn about an impertinent opinion of Henry Fowler concerning his vision of The King's English, irrespective of how many dozen writers one may quote who are plastering words all over the page without much attention to where they belong? His views are archaic and largely anglocentric; I learned and write American English, and the construction I referred to was awkward to say the least.

At least Fowler favored taking a position that was "comfortable" regarding the placement of modifiers. Gibberish such as the Yodash phrase "....disturbed by claims that her son and deceased husband had been communicated with." ....are distinctly distressing to my sense of effective communication. Of course, ease of expression lies in the ear of the auditor, and my appraisal of propriety differs significantly from yours. Not surprising seeing as how my opinion appears to be a statement of fact to your perception.

If we get to selectively pick our favorite authority, I would favor something more classical like this than the arbitrary perigrinations of the Oxford dictionary.

Walter.....
This is the kind of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put!
Pedantry it is, Walter, and of the most odious nature. But playful, only, Walt, nothing too personal. I'm sure George Lucas would applaud your constructions.


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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26013 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2011 :  05:14:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

My sincere thanks to you for swallowing the bait, hook, line, and sinker up to impalation upon the rod!
Shall I red-text you for trolling?
My timid effort to stir up a little rant defending the abuse of English worked better than I had dreamed it would.
Quoting someone else is "a little rant?" Who knew?
...and the construction I referred to was awkward to say the least.

At least Fowler favored taking a position that was "comfortable" regarding the placement of modifiers.
Indeed. Fowler argued for thoughtfulness as opposed to a hard line one shouldn't ever cross. Your initial complaint wasn't about awkwardness or about your sense of effective communication, it was a stupid, unconstructive whine that, despite you trying to pass it off as playful, you admit was for no other purpose than to derail the thread. Job well done.
...and my appraisal of propriety differs significantly from yours.
I never addressed whether the sentence in question was awkward or not, so this is just another example of you making shit up about me.
Not surprising seeing as how my opinion appears to be a statement of fact to your perception.
It certainly isn't a flaw of mine that you are unable to write to your own stated standards.
If we get to selectively pick our favorite authority, I would favor something more classical like this than the arbitrary perigrinations of the Oxford dictionary.
A Bing search results page is a non-arbitrary classical authority? Huh.

You might want to brush up on American English if you intend to be pedantic.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict

USA
2437 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2011 :  06:42:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send bngbuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave.....

Shall I red-text you for trolling?......etc.
As anticipated. Well done, Dave!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2011 :  07:38:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Dave.....

Shall I red-text you for trolling?......etc.
As anticipated. Well done, Dave!
Would you knock that shit off?

You do know that I took the time to respond to you too, and you have ignored that post. Was it not as much fun for you to stay on topic?


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26013 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2011 :  07:58:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
FFS, he's trolling for a ban, now. I'm not going to feed his ego with one, though.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2011 :  10:48:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by bngbuck

Dave.....

Shall I red-text you for trolling?......etc.
As anticipated. Well done, Dave!


Looks like you chased off Walter.

Well done, asshole.

How can English be abused when it is a mongrel language to begin with?

It has stolen from every major and quite a few minor language groups.

What's next? Asking us all to respond to you in Esperanto?

We might actually have to post a warning to new users about you.

Don't feed bngbuck, he bites.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Walter
New Member

6 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2011 :  11:09:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Walter a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Oh, Walter is still here. Looks like Conrad Black is back in jail and bored, what with all the errant pedantry around here!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2011 :  13:11:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's my short review:


I read Walter’s book. I think it could be useful for the uninitiated (those not trained in critical thinking) on how to deal with New Age relatives, especially in times of crisis. There is a lot there that I could relate to, having a brother who is very New Age.

I agree with him that the advice given by a New Age relative can be harmful, especially at a time when the family is dealing with grief or other misfortunes that might leave them vulnerable to accepting advice from someone who actually cares, but also has it all wrong.

After a brief explanation of what the New Age is, he presents several likely scenarios that can happen along with suggestions on how to respond to the New Ager. (I personally recognize some of the scenarios, having dealt with those same things myself.)

I’m not so sure I agree with some of his concluding remarks about the psychology of New Agers, and I have told him of my disagreements along those lines.

That said, this little guide could be handy for those who are pretty much regular folks dealing with a personal crisis and an intrusive New Age relative. Or more generally, it’s a pretty good guide on how to deal with an intrusive New Ager’s advice in any situation.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2011 :  21:30:43   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My review.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com

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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1462 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2011 :  12:20:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by marfknox

My review.


Do you think that the book can apply to other dogmatic worldviews like Christianity, Islam, etc.?
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wowlijetgold
Spammer

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 06/14/2012 :  00:40:46   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send wowlijetgold a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Genius only means hard-working all one's life.
Mendeleyev, Russian chemist

[Spam links deleted - Dave W.]
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