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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
 Posted - 11/22/2011 : 12:48:37
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Can anybody, ANYBODY?, tell me just what the hell all these "Occupy" protests are trying to achieve? I'm convince, so far, that they don't have a clue beyond how to get their asses beat and maced, aside when they are not being monitored and babysat by the police. At that their doing great. Is there a website or some place where they say what it is they're trying to achieve? Can someone direct me somewhere?
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There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
Edited by - sailingsoul on 11/22/2011 12:50:00
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 15:30:55 [Permalink]
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sailingsoul.....
They are trying in a highly disorganized and random way to express opposition and disgust at a large number of specific enormous problems that are affecting our country currently. Many don't know what exactly what they are demonstrating against. Some do.
They desperately need a leader and some direction and organization, to oppose and triumph over the incredibly corrupt. imbecilic (largely) and totally money obsessed Republicans. Some return to populism is desperately needed to offset the terrible danger to Democracy from the elitists. 99% vs. 1% is not going to be implemented by 999!
The Saviour should be Barack Obama, but this will never happen because of his total dependence on a horribly distorted and manipulated political system which has him on his knees, begging, (not praying - he is no more Christian than I am, which is to say zero!) - But huge money inflated by huge greed (billions, maybe even trillions of dollars) drives this political corruption. All politicians need money like they need (hot, usually,) air. Without money, Obama is impotent. As is Gingrich, a very rich lobbyist, and Romney, a very rich Mormon businessman
Barring Obama, the OWS movement needs an experienced, charismatic, experienced liberal -Democrat or Progressive -, so the energy of OWS can be directed toward achieving success in the 2012 elections.
No one has showed up yet. If they do, they will need money, too!
I contribute heavily to the Democrats -only because they are the only practical may to reduce Republican and Tea Party influence in Politics.
As a whole, I feel that the Dems are about 60 to 70% as evil as the Repugs (- 100%). So there can be absolutely no doubt as to it being a vote for the lesser of two evils in 2012.
Congress has to be seen on a one by one procedure depending on constituency. Enormous sums will be spent in critical districts by both parties. I will vote a 100% Democratic ticket except for Blue Dogs. Some of these reprehensible assholes are Trojan Horses and must be eliminate ar any cost.
I am more aware each day that passes of the corruption, greed, self-serving political ambition, and just plain WRONG that infects the Democrats today - all the way from Obama down to lowly city and state politics. The entire political system is seriously sick!
But compare four more years of Obama to four full years of the lobbyist and morally bankrupt human being that is Newt Gingrich, combined with a Republican Senate and House of Representatives and our already insanely Republican Supreme Court. Which will you choose?
Believe me, I am using the small status I have in the Democratic Party (based solely on the considerable money I send them monthly) to try and get some respected Democrat of high recognition and status, with the ability to organize and lead, to take a position of leadership of this potentially highly powerful OWS movement.
I direct you to a historical event of which you may not be aware. from wikiThe Kent State shootings of 1970—also known as the May 4 massacre or the Kent State massacre—occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of unarmed college students by members of the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. The guardsmen fired 67 rounds over a period of 13 seconds, killing four students and wounding nine others, one of whom suffered permanent paralysis.
Some of the students who were shot had been protesting against the American invasion of Cambodia, which President Richard Nixon announced in a television address on April 30. Other students who were shot had been walking nearby or observing the protest from a distance.
There was a significant national response to the shootings: hundreds of universities, colleges, and high schools closed throughout the United States due to a student strike of four million students, and the event further affected the public opinion—at an already socially contentious time—over the role of the United States in the Vietnam War. |
And of course you are aware of the sea change that the tremendous public protest and outcry concerning civil rights caused - primarily supporting the fair treatment of black folks.
Peaceful public protest can have a monumental effect on politics and civil behaviour and attitudes - even those that have as deep roots as racial discrimination. But it took a Martin Luther King, an extraordinary leader - to truly coalesce the movement into really effective marches and demonstrations.
What is your view of the pepper spray "paintings" done at the U of C?
Approve, disapprove, or don't give a damn? |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 11/22/2011 16:44:39 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 17:08:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
Can anybody, ANYBODY?, tell me just what the hell all these "Occupy" protests are trying to achieve? I'm convince, so far, that they don't have a clue beyond how to get their asses beat and maced, aside when they are not being monitored and babysat by the police. At that their doing great. Is there a website or some place where they say what it is they're trying to achieve? Can someone direct me somewhere?
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OWS is pretty much an organic movement that has grown out of a fairly long list of frustrations with how responsive government has been to the needs of those who are not rich, not a large corporation, and so on. It's a protest against the unfairness of our current system. There is no central leadership and it's debatable whether there should be one. What is true is that the people protesting are a reflection of what a majority of Americans believe. Look at any poll and you will see that most people believe too much money coming from the wrong places have had an undue influence over our politicians, and so not much is being done about jobs, a shrinking middle class, a growing poor population and a sense of hopelessness that the system as it now is indifferent to those problems even as it pays lip service to them. Bottom line? Our government is not working its way to becoming a plutocracy anymore. It's become a plutocracy, and folks like the Koch brothers and many, if not most our politicians, and a majority on the Supreme Court are just fine with that.
Here is a list of what the OWS people are after, made up by a blogger who is pretty much dead on about what the Occupy movement is about:
Occupy Boston: My Proposed Demands
| As a completely decentralized movement, we have yet to create a central series of demands or guiding principles. The following proposal is entirely my opinion and does not speak to the views of the Occupy Boston group as a whole. I have spent a great deal of time in Dewey Sq. talking to the other protesters about their grievances and proposals and have found that while we have varied ideology, there are several common themes to our ideals. While I believe that the lack of a defined ideology allows us to not alienate any possible support, we must figure out a defined set of demands lest we fracture or simply lose our momentum. |
Click the link to read what I believe are our central grievances and demands.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 19:00:26 [Permalink]
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I can't identify one comment I would disagree with you on bngbuck but would add that this really makes me ill, in my stomach, when I think to much of what is going on in Washington and Americans inability to see what's going on there. It's been a nightmare for me since the 2000 election scam. Living in Ft Lauderdale, Florida at the time I remember how after a month of the Florida charade of a re-count, it was halted by the Supreme Court. In less than 24 hours after an election they can count the ballots but after 4 weeks they can't count them a second time? Give me a break.
Originally posted by bngbuck
But compare four more years of Obama to four full years of the lobbyist and morally bankrupt human being that is Newt Gingrich, combined with a Republican Senate and House of Representatives and our already insanely Republican Supreme Court. Which will you choose? |
I don't know if it's a blessing or not but living in the US Virgin Islands I don't get to vote for President here. For what it's worth I wouldn't vote for republican I can think of. Certainly not for any one of them in the race now.
What is your view of the pepper spray "paintings" done at the U of C?[/b]
I have no TV access so I have only been able to see the first few minutes of it on the internet, once. Like 2 minutes. My internet connection is so slow that I can't watch longer clips. I was a bit distressed by what I saw and frankly was, for once, grateful for the slow connection, as an excuse to move on and not watch the whole thing.
Mahatma Gandhi and Dr. King got it right when it came to making an effective change. OWS needs another one of them right now. I wouldn't expect that person to be treated any differently should one arise. I talking about that leader and those following being maced, beat down and arrested just like Gandhi, King and the supporters of change were.
I have given it much thought and believe that by my observations America's political health was obviously off by 2000. I saw it certainly sliding before then with the mergers of mass media news, radio and TV companies before then. For them to occur long standing FCC rules were abandoned that limited the amount of saturation any one company could have over a particular region or market. We didn't get to where we are now over night and at this late date recovery will not be easy, nor quick. There are many thing like that that need to be undone before the healthier democracy we had might return. I could never believe that it's impossible because no system that is to far out of balance can ever be maintained indefinitely. Especially like what is going on now where the imbalance is growing on itself.
For me America died on Jan 21, 2010. That's when the Supreme Court ruled that Corporations had unlimited free speech. THIS MUST BE ADDRESSED. Kieth Olbermann saw it [b]immediately[/b] when on that same day he aired this.. That was over 22 months ago and that video has had less than 52,000 viewings? That fact put my stomach in a knot.
[quote]from my first link,,,
A dissenting opinion by Justice Stevens was joined by Justice Ginsburg, Justice Breyer, and Justice Sotomayor. To emphasize his unhappiness with the majority, Stevens took the relatively rare step of reading part of his 90 page dissent from the bench.[23] Stevens concurred in the Court's decision to sustain BCRA's disclosure provisions, but dissented from the principal holding of the majority opinion. The dissent argued that the Court's ruling "threatens to undermine the integrity of elected institutions across the Nation. The path it has taken to reach its outcome will, I fear, do damage to this institution." |
I just read some where or heard on NPR that a school board seat was won after $500,000 was spent by the winner. WTF? A school board seat! the biggest part of that $500,000 did not come from that community and it's my guess that that seat will not serve that school, it's students or their parrents well but what do I know making such a fantastical leap of logic like that?
Correcting that 2010 error is possibly beyond the voters to correct given how many delusional republican voters there are who make under a million dollars a year who think they are not being fucked over by those they vote for and dogmatically believe in.
This is what needs to be understood and acted upon first or nothing that the OWS can dream of will ever amount to a hill of beans.
That's my position Bill and how I see it.
Thanks for the link kill. It was helpful. After going through them I don't feel any better as they don't address a single cause of any demand. That is my biggest problem. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
| Edited by - sailingsoul on 11/22/2011 19:03:05 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2011 : 19:24:14 [Permalink]
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SS:
Thanks for the link kill. It was helpful. After going through them I don't feel any better as they don't address a single cause of any demand. That is my biggest problem. SS |
Well... Most of us who protested the war in Viet Nam weren't protesting the cause of war. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 07:36:44 [Permalink]
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| As usual, Tom Tomorrow hits the nail on the head |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2011 : 09:13:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
SS:
Thanks for the link kill. It was helpful. After going through them I don't feel any better as they don't address a single cause of any demand. That is my biggest problem. SS |
Well... Most of us who protested the war in Viet Nam weren't protesting the cause of war.
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I should add that the cause of the problem is also pointed out by looking at the demands and solutions. For example if one solution is to fix the tax code so that corporations start paying taxes, and the wealthiest pay more, then the cause of the problem, in this case is they aren't. And that's because of the way the tax code is written. A millionaire may be in a higher tax bracket than her secretary, but because of bonuses and other loopholes, they average 18% which means by percentage, they are paying less than the people who work for them. Or if the banks need better regulation, it's because they lack enough regulation to serve their customers. For example, they got bailed out but they are not lending. No one is asking for subprime loans, which is part of what started the current melt down, but they should be asking people with good credit for 30% down either. That sort of practice has dragged my industry down.
Just yesterday the big banks showed a major increase in profits and yet credit it still tight. They are making money on derivatives, and are basically useless where it comes to turning our economy around. Good for share holders I guess, but bad for everyone else.
Protesters can't legislate. The idea is to raise the awareness of the general public enough to put pressure on those who do legislate to put better regulations in place and pressure banks to focus on loans that would not be considered subprime at all. That's just another example of what OWS is bringing attention to. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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What Is OWS Trying To Achieve?
