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 Ex-student kills 7 at small Creationist college
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2012 :  00:35:27  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A 42 year old man, One Goh, is being held for the shooting of ten people, seven of whom died, at Oikos University, a tiny Korean college in Oakland, California.

Oakland Police haven't yet interviewed the suspected mass-murderer. No motive is known.

Oikos gives accredited sub-doctoral degrees in theology, nursing, and "Asian Medicine." CNN posted an article that describes the school, and the Korean-American propensity for evangelical fundamentalism:
. . .

Andrew Sung Park, a professor of theology and ethics at United Theological Seminary in Ohio, says that Korean-American Christianity probably represents the fastest-growing part of the Asian American religious landscape.

The community is largely a legacy of American evangelizing in South Korea, which is now home to the world's largest Christian church.

Most of 1.3 million Korean Americans are Christian, Park said, and they generally subscribe to an evangelical Protestant version of the faith.

"There is a saying that when Koreans get together in the United States, they establish churches first," says Park, who is Korean-American. "Some other Asians are more concerned with businesses or finances, but Koreans care about religion and about Christianity."

The school's focus on Oriental medicine, including classes on acupuncture and herbal medicine, speaks to the Koreans' holistic outlook on life, blending Eastern approaches to health and medicine with Western religion, even mixing Christianity with Korea's shamanistic traditions, Park says.

"Koreans are very much interested in healing, faith healing, medical healing, spiritual healing... there is a oneness," he says.

Oikos University, which takes its name from the Greek word for "house," espouses a literal view of the Bible, which the school's site describes as "infallibly and uniquely authoritative and free from error of any sort in all matters."

The site promotes "the literal existence of Adam and Eve as the progenitors of all people, the literal fall and resultant divine curse on the creation, the worldwide cataclysmic deluge, and the origin of nations and languages at the tower of Babel."

"We believe the realities of heaven and hell," the site says.

. . .
We have a lot of evangelical Koreans here in Baguio, too. My fiancee is a Baptist, and her preacher is Korean. This town is dotted with many small small and large fundamentalist Korean churches and schools.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.

Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/03/2012 00:37:41

On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2012 :  00:44:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
what's the deal with asians going nuts in colleges? Cracking under the pressure of high expectations parents maybe?

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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2012 :  02:14:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

what's the deal with asians going nuts in colleges? Cracking under the pressure of high expectations parents maybe?
Certainly, there's a lot of parental pressure for education among many East Asians from countries influenced by Confucianist culture and its valuation of scholarship. But I really don't think that results in any higher than average "going nuts" than among others. Plus, this guy One Goh was 42 and no longer a student.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2012 :  09:29:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
People of every flavor, come in every flavor.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
Edited by - sailingsoul on 04/03/2012 09:35:46
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2012 :  09:34:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sailingsoul

People of every flavor come in every flavor.
I think a guy in the Haight Ashbury told me something like that in 1967.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2012 :  10:36:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Now that One Goh guy's talking to the police. From all reports, he was and is simply in a rage that he was expelled from Oikos University this year. The guy apparently was a time-bomb, and went off. According to the my interpretation of the story at the link, he didn't have a shootout with the Oakland PD after his cold-blooded murders simply because he's a chickenshit bastard, and on principle doesn't shoot at armed people. Here's some quoting:
(CNN) -- The man accused of killing seven people execution-style at a small religious college in Oakland, California, "does not appear to be remorseful at all," the city's police chief said Tuesday.

Former student One Goh, 43, told authorities he was upset about being expelled from Oikos University this year, Police Chief Howard Jordan said.

He was upset with some administrators and students and said he had been "picked on" and "wasn't treated fairly," Jordan said.

Investigators believe Goh walked into the single-story building housing the university Monday morning, took a receptionist hostage and went looking for a particular female administrator, who was not there, Jordan told CNN.

Goh took the woman into the classroom, but when he realized the administrator was not there, he shot the secretary and ordered the students to line up against the wall. Not all of them cooperated, Jordan said, and so he began shooting.

"I'm going to kill you all," the gunman said, according to CNN affiliate KTLA.

"This was a calculated, cold-blooded execution in the classroom," Jordan said. The suspect "just felt a certain urge to inflict pain on them," he said.

After the shooting, the man left the classroom, reloaded his semiautomatic weapon and returned, firing into several classrooms, Jordan said.

. . .

He was deeply in debt and had tens of thousands of dollars in tax liens, including from the Internal Revenue Service, according to CNN affiliate KGO. Goh's brother, a staff sergeant in the Army, died last year in a car accident while training with the Special Forces, KGO said.

. . .

Asked why Goh stopped shooting, Jordan said authorities arrived within minutes of the first 911 call at 10:33 a.m., and investigators believe Goh did not want a confrontation with police.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2012 :  19:51:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Naturally, you can imagine what the take of the religious right will be...

Never mind that it was only mandatory teacher-led prayer that was taken out, not "prayer", period...

Never mind that this used to be one of their own...

Never mind that countries that are far more secular than the US have far fewer incidents like this happening...


Sorry, but I'm sick of the scapegoating going on.

If maybe those people had a brain and maybe tried to work out whatever the REAL causes are, maybe they'd have more luck preventing this shit?


>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
Edited by - the_ignored on 04/03/2012 19:59:16
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2012 :  22:30:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by the_ignored

Naturally, you can imagine what the take of the religious right will be...

Never mind that it was only mandatory teacher-led prayer that was taken out, not "prayer", period...

Never mind that this used to be one of their own...

Never mind that countries that are far more secular than the US have far fewer incidents like this happening...


Sorry, but I'm sick of the scapegoating going on.

If maybe those people had a brain and maybe tried to work out whatever the REAL causes are, maybe they'd have more luck preventing this shit?


Here I am, a rabid "gnu atheist," writing about this tragedy with some compassion and a great deal of restraint. At no point have I blamed the religious and Creationist nature of that tiny "university" for the gunman's rampage. Unless evidence to the contrary comes up, I will assume that One Goh's crime was simply the act of mad, cowardly rage that it seems, not the result of his belief in the Bible or Creationism. I no more blame this slaughter on an especially whacked-out version of Christianism than I blame Stalin's slaughter of the Ukrainians on his atheism. It would be like blaming a drunk driver's car crash on the car's dirty rear bumper.

But the link you gave shows how some fundies are already placing blame on secularism, with no evidence at all. Indeed, where is secularism in this picture at all? The school that was attacked is a hard-core, prayer-not-optional, religious institution, and the attacker a former student there.

The lesson of course, is that fundies of the kind you linked to will say any damned thing. Any foul lie against their enemies that pops into their heads instantly becomes to them God's truth.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/03/2012 22:32:52
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2012 :  23:32:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A little more about the suspect:


One Goh

From CNN:
. . .

The portrait of Goh emerging one day after six women and one man were shot to death at Oikos University in Oakland is of someone who felt he was "teased" and "picked on" at the college, which eventually expelled him, possibly for poor behavior, police said.

Goh was self-conscious of his inability to speak English like a native and felt that students and others at the school made fun of him, police said.

Oakland Police Chief Howard Jordan said it wasn't immediately clear why Goh had been expelled from the college but, "We've been told that some of the possibilities are that he was expelled for his behavioral problems, anger management, but nothing specific."

. . .
Nothing I see so far indicates Goh's rampage had any "religious" (or secular!) motivation.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2012 :  11:39:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by the_ignored

Sorry, but I'm sick of the scapegoating going on.
As long as they are doing it to themselves, the cynic in me says "let them have at it".

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2012 :  13:09:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Originally posted by the_ignored

Sorry, but I'm sick of the scapegoating going on.
As long as they are doing it to themselves, the cynic in me says "let them have at it".
That's not it, though. They're blaming seculars for one of their fellow fundy's bad behavior.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9677 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2012 :  15:46:16   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of course they are. They can't blame their own kind for such a stunt. What would that look like?
The spin machine has to be fully spooled-up.

Liars for Jesus like those irks me. That's why I don't feel sorry for them.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 04/04/2012 15:47:04
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The Rat
SFN Regular

Canada
1342 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2012 :  18:44:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit The Rat's Homepage Send The Rat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMoonerUnless evidence to the contrary comes up, I will assume that One Goh's crime was simply the act of mad, cowardly rage that it seems, not the result of his belief in the Bible or Creationism. I no more blame this slaughter on an especially whacked-out version of Christianism than I blame Stalin's slaughter of the Ukrainians on his atheism. It would be like blaming a drunk driver's car crash on the car's dirty rear bumper.


Agree absolutely. As I get older I don't see religion itself as the problem, it is more of an enabler and facilitator. And as such it still has a lot to answer for, but the root cause of this is a human failing. The instinct for co-operation and understanding that should be inherent in any social species, which H. sapiens evolved as, should have prevented such behaviour. For whatever reason, be it biological, social, or other factors, Goh lacked this instinct.


Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.

You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II

Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

Saudi Arabia
1266 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2012 :  20:26:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sailingsoul

People of every flavor, come in every flavor.


Any evidence that the "flavours" are equally distributed in every population? I'm just saying this isn't the first or second, or third time an Asian has gone amok at a school in a country where Asians are a minority. But go ahead and blame religion if you're more comfortable with that.

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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2012 :  21:46:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

Any evidence that the "flavours" are equally distributed in every population? I'm just saying this isn't the first or second, or third time an Asian has gone amok at a school in a country where Asians are a minority.
Why don't you go through the data and support your own contention?
But go ahead and blame religion if you're more comfortable with that.
Didn't look like sailingsoul was blaming religion at all, to me. How did you get that from his single sentence?

I think it's actually much more likely that nutjobs are attracted to religion than that religion causes people to go nuts. But if we managed to get rid of religion entirely, that'd be one fewer layer of nonsense that we need to get through to discover the root causes of this kind of tragedy.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/04/2012 :  22:33:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Of course they are. They can't blame their own kind for such a stunt. What would that look like?
The spin machine has to be fully spooled-up.

Liars for Jesus like those irks me. That's why I don't feel sorry for them.
Oh, sorry, I misread that. I'd thought you were saying fundies were scapegoating themselves, and I was "correcting" that misimpression.

But I don't share your apparent (maybe I'm misreading this, too?) lack of concern with the shooting of ten of my former neighbors, whatever their religion. To my mind, that's the same as not caring for the victims of the human sacrifices in Sonora, Mexico, simply because those victims belonged to the same cult. Our instinctual and socially nurtured sense of compassion should not be limited to our in-group, while excluding "outsiders," no matter how often those outsiders may themselves use the same primitive tribal distinctions.

That kind of us/them, friend/enemy thinking is doubtless killing millions every year. I know I've been struggling internally with that tendency for many decades. In me, it tends to be motivated by ideology and a semi-latent authoritarian bent. I still have it, but I'm getting better.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/04/2012 22:39:44
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