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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
 Posted - 04/16/2012 : 07:29:08
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Anyone who has followed this will probably understand why I didn't know whether to place it in the 'politics', 'religion', or 'social issues' category, so I put it here. Haven't got too far into this web site yet, but it seems like a valuable resource when taking on the fundies and others who don't have a friggin' clue about the subject:
The Pledge
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Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 07:41:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by The Rat
Anyone who has followed this will probably understand why I didn't know whether to place it in the 'politics', 'religion', or 'social issues' category, so I put it here. Haven't got too far into this web site yet, but it seems like a valuable resource when taking on the fundies and others who don't have a friggin' clue about the subject:
The Pledge
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You assume that evidence is relevant to them.
From President Eisenhower himself
Kinda nails the coffin shut on the "ceremonial deism" argument they tend to make. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 07:49:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
You assume that evidence is relevant to them.
From President Eisenhower himself
Kinda nails the coffin shut on the "ceremonial deism" argument they tend to make.
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Oh, I know that, we'll never get through to them. It's bystanders I'm thinking about, those who could be swayed either way.
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Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 11:06:27 [Permalink]
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| Just another example of how American Christians are misguided in their thinking. Government is not the proper vehicle to get our message across. I have never been shown by any Christian where it states in the Bible that we should use government to evangelize, do good works or do anything. It would advance our cause enormously if Christians were not political. Christians and conservatism seem to be synonymous in America which is a shame. |
Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17) |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2012 : 16:36:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
Just another example of how American Christians are misguided in their thinking. Government is not the proper vehicle to get our message across. I have never been shown by any Christian where it states in the Bible that we should use government to evangelize, do good works or do anything. It would advance our cause enormously if Christians were not political. Christians and conservatism seem to be synonymous in America which is a shame.
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The reason for that is simple. The true believers willingly give up rational thinking in order to hold their beliefs. This makes them vulnerable to manipulation. The true power holders in the new conservative world are some billionaires and corporations. They hire politicians to get elected, help them use these social wedge issues (abortion, gays, stem cells, creationism, religion, etc) to convince the suckers to vote for them. The newly elected politician continues to pay lip service to those issues while setting policy and the legislative agenda based on what their billionaires tell them. So much so that the average republican/teabagger can't even tell you what the conservative movement was started around, what the original positions and planks were.
All the while the suckers remain suckers and keep voting against their own best self interest. It's a shame, really, that the electorate of this country has become so collectively stupid.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 11:12:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Originally posted by Convinced
Just another example of how American Christians are misguided in their thinking. Government is not the proper vehicle to get our message across. I have never been shown by any Christian where it states in the Bible that we should use government to evangelize, do good works or do anything. It would advance our cause enormously if Christians were not political. Christians and conservatism seem to be synonymous in America which is a shame.
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The reason for that is simple. The true believers willingly give up rational thinking in order to hold their beliefs. This makes them vulnerable to manipulation. The true power holders in the new conservative world are some billionaires and corporations. They hire politicians to get elected, help them use these social wedge issues (abortion, gays, stem cells, creationism, religion, etc) to convince the suckers to vote for them. The newly elected politician continues to pay lip service to those issues while setting policy and the legislative agenda based on what their billionaires tell them. So much so that the average republican/teabagger can't even tell you what the conservative movement was started around, what the original positions and planks were.
All the while the suckers remain suckers and keep voting against their own best self interest. It's a shame, really, that the electorate of this country has become so collectively stupid.
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Maybe we should move this thread to the conspiracy theory section. |
Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17) |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 20:37:17 [Permalink]
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I was just ten years old when I got back from summer vacation and found that the Pledge had been changed. The teacher had to drill us in the new wording.
I wasn't an atheist yet, nor did I know about the Establishment Clause, but I felt there was something very wrong about the insertion of "under God" into the pledge. Maybe my thoughts were that, just as my Methodist Sunday School didn't put useful academic material into their Jesus lessons, Encanto Elementary shouldn't do useless church stuff. In my childish mind, the Pledge change was more an unwelcome abuse of established categories than of the Constitution. And there also seemed to me to be an implication that all our previous solemn patriotic Pledges were somehow now invalid.
I didn't know quite why, but I didn't like the change. Yet I somehow also knew that this wasn't an issue that a little kid could change by arguing with a teacher, even if I had a coherent argument to make, which I didn't.
So, from that first day in 1954 until I graduated from high school in 1963, I said "under-dog" each time the Pledge was recited. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/17/2012 20:51:15 |
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The flag pledge controversy
