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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 05/28/2012 : 06:36:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Couldn't get to the plants? Then silence the scientists! GM crop-trial website taken down by cyber-attack."Whoever conducted this malicious attack, please respect our wish to give public-funded science information to the public," said Rothamsted's official twitter feed this morning.
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This quote gave me an idea:| "If this wheat goes to commercialisation, there would then be cross-contamination and we would no longer have a choice about GM or non-GM," said Lucy Harrap, who helped to organise the event. |
Yeah. At least make the anti-GMO dingbats think that GMO pollen has spread. Then they'll either have to give up eating altogether, or have a flesh-only diet like traditional Inuits. In the latter case, the animal libbers would go to war with them. It couldn't get any better than that! |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 05/28/2012 08:31:39 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 06:48:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
Requiring labeling would put an end to it once and for all. I hope that day is coming. I for one don't want to eat any plant that has been altered so it produces it's own insecticides so it doesn't have to be applied when needed. Anyone who feels GMO's are can buy the all the GMO products they want just by reading the label, once they require it and those who don't can avoid it the same way. Let the consumer decide, what's wrong with that?
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This wheat is not one that "produces it's own insecticides". If the trial works, it will produce a scent (as do many other plants, such as peppermint) that repels aphids. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 07:32:29 [Permalink]
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Peppermint wheat sounds interesting. I would at least like to try it.
If I have peppermint wheat pancakes, will it improve my breath?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 09:28:59 [Permalink]
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Yeah. What's really dumb here is that the scent would not be detectable by humans, and it occurs in over 450 plant species that naturally repel aphids. I'll bet that those same people who are against this GM would happily spray their own plants with an extract of whatever the scent is derived from to ward off insect pests and call doing it that way, organic.
The stupid burns!
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 12:01:10 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
This wheat is not one that "produces it's own insecticides". If the trial works, it will produce a scent (as do many other plants, such as peppermint) that repels aphids.
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Could you provide a link to this topic or where you got this information? |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 13:00:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
Originally posted by HalfMooner
This wheat is not one that "produces it's own insecticides". If the trial works, it will produce a scent (as do many other plants, such as peppermint) that repels aphids.
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Could you provide a link to this topic or where you got this information?
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Rothamsted Wheat Trial: Second generation GM technology to emulate natural plant defence mechanisms
Wheat is the most important UK crop with an annual value of about £1.2 billion. Currently a large proportion of UK wheat is treated with broad spectrum chemical insecticides to control cereal aphids that reduce yields by sucking sap from plants and by transmitting barley yellow dwarf virus. Unfortunately, repeated use of insecticides often leads to resistant aphids and kills other non-target insect species including the natural enemies of aphids, which could have a further impact on biodiversity.
Scientists at Rothamsted, funded by the UK Government through the Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research (BBSRC) have been seeking novel ecological solutions to overcome this problem in wheat. One approach has been to use an odour, or alarm pheromone, which aphids produce to alert one another to danger. This odour, (E)-#946;-farnesene, is also produced by some plants as a natural defence mechanism and not only repels aphids but also attracts the natural enemies of aphids, e.g. ladybirds. Our scientists are using biotechnological tools to genetically engineer a wheat plant which produces high levels of this aphid repelling odour, which could help promote sustainable and environmentally friendly agriculture. |
The assumption that everything GM means splicing actual pesticides into plants is a false one. Most of what's being done is to figure out what is beneficial to one species and to see if it can be spliced into another species to make it easier to grow. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 13:18:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
| "If this wheat goes to commercialisation, there would then be cross-contamination and we would no longer have a choice about GM or non-GM," said Lucy Harrap, who helped to organise the event. |
Yeah. At least make the anti-GMO dingbats think that GMO pollen has spread. Then they'll either have to give up eating altogether, or have a flesh-only diet like traditional Inuits. In the latter case, the animal libbers would go to war with them. It couldn't get any better than that!
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There IS a definitive potential problem here that has nothing to do with any health issues*, namely the ownership of the gene(s) in question. Monsanto, for example, have modified soybeans to be resistant to it's herbicide Roundup - and they sure don't like when their genes are found growing on someones field when this someone has not bought their seeds from Monsanto. But, as we all know, plants spread and can end up in other fiels and they also cross-pollinate with other similar plants. So what arises is a situation where it is quite hard to farm anything that Monsanto has modified - if their genes are found in your field, you might find yourself in a sticky legal situation, even though your only crime is growing soybeans.
* Please note that I have no idea if this will apply to Rothamsted as I don't know who, if anyone, will own any genes here. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 16:10:15 [Permalink]
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| The scientists have said that this modification will not be patented to any commercial company. They said so in their YouTube video begging the Luddites to talk to them instead of coming to destroy the experiment. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 16:53:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
The assumption that everything GM means splicing actual pesticides into plants is a false one. Most of what's being done is to figure out what is beneficial to one species and to see if it can be spliced into another species to make it easier to grow.
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Thanks for the info on this research, interesting.
I never said "everything", I not even sure what your saying but if your saying that there aren't GM food crops that do produce their own pesticides your assumption is wrong IMO. Ever hear of Bt-corn, Bt-canola or Bt-soybean?
| Bt belongs to the bacteria family, Bacillus cerus, which cause food-poisoning in humans. Bt does not cause food poising to humans because it contains a plasmid that produces the certain protein crystals that are toxic to insects. |
However there are known negative issues with Bt-GM's like....The Bt corn can also kill other beneficial insects such as the monarch butterfly, bees, and ladybugs.
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The Bt corn can produce unpredictable toxins and allergens into food plants and therefore into the final product. Also the Bt corn can be considered unstable as the number of copies of an inserted gene changes through later generations of the Bt corn. |
On the issues of allergens in food and I referring to human allergens, we have this experience.
StarLink corn, like other kinds of Bt corn, was genetically engineered to be resistant to the European corn borer. In tests, the Bt Cry9C protein used in StarLink corn showed several similarities to allergens. Among other characteristics, it was slower to break down in simulated disgestion tests than the Cry1A protein used in other kinds of Bt corn. Concern about the possibility of allergic responses led U.S. regulators to approve StarLink corn for production with the restriction that it be used only for animal food or non-food purposes. Before regulators could determine whether the Cry9C protein was allergenic or not, it was reported that StarLink corn products were showing up on grocery store shelves. Aventis, the maker of StarLink corn, discontinued seed sales in the fall of 2000.
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I can't imagine that Aventis abandoned this seed because it proved to not produce allergic responses in people but we will never know. They did in fact walkaway from an approved GM seed that was being sold and that didn't happen without a reason.
I really don't have a big problem with GMO's other than the fact that these products are being approved with to many unknowns about their safety toward health and affects to the environment. And I have a very big problem with the issue Hawks raised with his post.
| So what arises is a situation where it is quite hard to farm anything that Monsanto has modified - if their genes are found in your field, you might find yourself in a sticky legal situation, even though your only crime is growing soybeans. |
It does seem that things are changing on that front. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 17:31:24 [Permalink]
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SS. Yes. There have been problems with some GMO's. And there are the problems that Hawks mentioned and problems I mentioned in an earlier post. That said, it has not very much to do with what this group of researchers are doing, because they seem to be doing it right.
The main thing is to understand that this is a rather new way to achieve hybridization. There are risks and a lot of kinks need to be worked out, many of which Rothamsted Research seems to be addressing. And that makes them a very odd target for this kind of protest. It boils down to this. The people who are after Rothamsted don't give a flying fuck about how careful they are, what approach they are taking, or who they are or are not affiliated with. They've decided that GMO = bad. Screw science.
In my view, they have followed the Greenpeace lead and like Greenpeace they are both lying and fear mongering. The reason I left Greenpeace was over this issue. There is no middle ground or reasoning with those people. It's "Frankenfood" and that's that. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 17:34:40 [Permalink]
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| For anyone interested on the dangers Hawks raised you might take the time to watch this. What needs to be corrected is patent law that no one can patent genes that they did not create themselves. IMO Percy Schmeiser and his wife are real heroes for having the balls to fight Monsanto, when no other farmers before them ever did. To my knowledge every other farmer before them was steamrolled over, kissed their ass and signed gag agreements where the Schmeisers didn't. They put everything they had on the line in their fight. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13476 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 18:39:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by sailingsoul
For anyone interested on the dangers Hawks raised you might take the time to watch this. What needs to be corrected is patent law that no one can patent genes that they did not create themselves. IMO Percy Schmeiser and his wife are real heroes for having the balls to fight Monsanto, when no other farmers before them ever did. To my knowledge every other farmer before them was steamrolled over, kissed their ass and signed gag agreements where the Schmeisers didn't. They put everything they had on the line in their fight.
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Yup. Monsanto sucks. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 20:48:21 [Permalink]
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To summarize where I'm at: I've learned a lot about both the benefits, and dangers of GMOs. In particular, I want to thank those who pointed some of the real negative points about GMOs. I had thought there were very, very few problems. Now it's clearer to me that research and approval must be done very carefully indeed.
I still think the Rothamsted researchers are doing it right, and that Take Back the Flour is an alarmist, lying pack of anti-science, neo-Luddite vandals. I especially appreciate that the Rothamsted people are going to make any successful products freely available. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 05/28/2012 20:51:53 |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 21:34:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
The scientists have said that this modification will not be patented to any commercial company. They said so in their YouTube video begging the Luddites to talk to them instead of coming to destroy the experiment.
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Thanks. It even said so in the transcript available at the Denialism blog:
| Our work is publically funded, we have pledged that our results will not be patented and will not be owned by any private company – if our wheat proves to be beneficial we want it to be available to farmers around the world at minimum cost. |
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METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2012 : 23:09:53 [Permalink]
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Kil, Points taken. I don't have any issues with the approach this research is working on. I do have an issue with the approach Monsanto follows, e.g. Roundup ready corn, soybeans and Bt crops. You agree there have been problems and I believe and studies have shown there are other existing ones beyond Hawks raised point. The attitude that ALL GM products are all bad or dangerous is not necessarily the case and is wrong. I absolutely don't agree with how the US FDA fast tracks approval of transgenic GMO's because they have established as a policy that transgenic GMO's are essentially no different than other GM methods, like selective breeding. Get that? The FDA says that transgenic GM products are the same as e.g. selective breeding! How does one get the genes from viruses and bacteria into plants and animals or genes from different animals species into other animals or plants by cross or selective breeding? It's not possible and that makes the policy that transgenic GMO's are essentially the same as all other non transgenic GMO's very dangerous to world health and environment. This policy of the FDA is what makes it possible for them to fast track approval and not require health and allergy testing to be done on any food products before the FDA grants approval. If these products like, monsanto's round up ready soybeans to name one, are not required to be tested before approval to see if there are any allergic reaction from consumption by people and unless the reaction are acute and wide spread right out of the gate the cause of such allergies could possibly never be identified. This is what make some people believe all GMO's are "Frankenfoods". And without proper testing before approval and release into the market I'm going to be prone to the same kind of thinking. Until testing is required before approval.
Food related illnesses in the USA doubled between 1994 and 2001, at a time when a lot of new GMO products were being introduced....
When GMO soy was introduced into the UK soy related allergies increased 50%. |
Are these the lies your are referring that the Frankenfoodies are passing? I don't think they are lies and if they are true there is a problem and it's in the FDA and GMO's. This type of issue will bring out strong emotions and emotional zealots will make waters very cloudy along with the actions of a ny corporation making billions of dollars annually on GMO products. There are extreme problems in the FDA and with a number of FDA officials who work there now in very high positions, who came from Monsanto prior and officials that work for Monsanto now after leaving the FDA. The provable facts are there, on this matter, if you chose to know them.
Of course I will agree with this, what I write about, has nothing to do with Rothamsted and if anyone thinks I have hijacked this this thread I apologize. But not before I recommend a book called "Seeds of Deception" by Jeffery M. Smith. He gives a talk about the book and what it covers here. It is part three of his talk but covers some aspects of what I've written about above. His book is something else to say the least but it may be full of lies. We all must be our own judge because it is us individually who will or won't have to deal with the affects of what we eat and feed our babies that has not been studied before approval. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Rothamsted
