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 What I find most distressing about Creationists
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2012 :  11:33:23  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Creationist ideas, based as they are simply on ancient, religious scripture, are terrible enough. The magical creation of the entire universe in six days, 6,000 to 10,000 years ago is blindingly moronic enough -- and it's outright criminal when taught to children in lieu of sound science.

But what personally ticks me off the most is the constant refrain by the Creationists that scientists are participating in a gigantic worldwide conspiracy to promote evolution (which they know is false), merely to strike out against the Bible and Christianity and to support their atheism. This conspiratorial calumny is widely preached by Creationists, and it stated as either a fact, or is implied to be factual.

This would probably have to be an evolutionist conspiracy by millions, even if one included only biologists, a conspiracy that includes many devout Christians. Such a conspiracy would require extremely tight control and organization, a vetting system for all potential biologists, and a security system to prevent "leaks" of supposed Creation-supporting evidence. The evolutionist security people would also have to track down and silence traitors, destroy papers and evidence for Creation, etc. And all this would have to be done on an international basis, with "evolution agents" waltzing across borders without national security agencies taking any particular notice. And there could be no leaks, nobody telling tales out of school.

An impossible conspiracy.

Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead.
-- Benjamin Franklin

Somehow, the Creationists are the only people to stumble upon this conspiracy? What a coincidence!

This conspiracy explanation of science's acceptance of the fact of evolution is what is called a "Big Lie":
All this was inspired by the principle--which is quite true within itself--that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

—Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X
Hitler of course blamed "the Jews" for inventing the Big Lie -- a Big Lie in itself! But it's clear from history that he himself was an early, world-class user and developer of the technique.

For it to work at all, it's essential to repeat a Big Lie constantly. In this, "quantity has its own quality." And so Creationists repeat this Big Lie constantly.

It is not that I equate Creationists with Nazis. That would be like equating rotten apples with rotten eggs. But I do equate the Creationist use of the Big Lie with that of all those dictators and politicians who have used it in history. The Big Lie is alive and well, only its details change with time.

Ben Stein's movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed is a typical example of this Big Lie of evolution being a supposed atheist scientific conspiracy against the Bible and religion.

I can understand why Creationists resort to the same propaganda techniques as infamous dictators. The reason is simple: They have a big problem. A conspiracy is the only explanation, aside from the Bible being wrong, that could explain why biologists almost universally accept evolution as factual and as a foundational principle of their science.

Almost all Creationists use this Big Lie of slandering science in one manner or another. They have to. Either that, or else abandon their literal interpretation of the Genesis myth.

I thoroughly detest Creationists for so vilely bearing false witness against their neighbors.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.

Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/30/2012 12:12:54

the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2012 :  13:30:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You're really not going to like this site then.


>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular

USA
854 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2012 :  13:47:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Machi4velli a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The purveyors may understand what they're doing, but I'm not sure the people who believe them do know it's false, and certainly didn't/don't take the time to find out.

I think too many people don't understand how scientific research is done, how very incremental and decentralized it typically is. Thinking that it's a more tight-knit group pushing many fewer but bigger scientific leaps makes a conspiracy, or a less intentional or organized case of groupthink and lack of skepticism (lol) of badly, in their view, established knowledge on the part of scientists, much easier for people to believe.

Science education really needs to emphasize how hard it is for a theory to persist and how easy it is to kill or drastically change it in terms of amount of information needed. A single repeatable observation or found inconsistency can break major parts of a theory. When you only look at textbooks in school, you see all the highlights and main results without the minutiae that was needed to get to those points, and only hear about the superstars of science. Without a teacher who understands and emphasizes the incremental nature of science, students may not come to understand this, and may, therefore, be more susceptible to this nonsense.

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking

"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular

USA
854 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2012 :  13:53:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Machi4velli a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by the_ignored

You're really not going to like this site then.




Did the third one just attack intelligent design without religion? Lol, thanks guys..

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking

"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2012 :  22:34:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by the_ignored

You're really not going to like this site then.
Not much. The fourth cartoon (showing children bowing down to evolution) demonstrates a Big Lie that I did not cover in the OP: The lie that evolution (and by extension, secularism or atheism) is a religion. It's an especially irritating Big Lie, but it does serve to illustrate in a Freudian Slip manner that the Creationists know of nothing more evil than religion, and forcing children to toe a dogmatic line.

Lietha's stuff appears almost entirely designed to reinforce Creationism, not to promote it to unbelievers. The goals for so many fundamentalists seems simply to separate themselves from the evil, secular world. Without giving up technology, medicine, the Internet, etc., of course. Not really a task that's possible.

Thank goodness Dan Lietha is such a poor cartoonist! He doesn't amount to a pimple on the ass of Jack Chick.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/30/2012 23:08:45
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2012 :  22:51:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Machi4velli

The purveyors may understand what they're doing, but I'm not sure the people who believe them do know it's false, and certainly didn't/don't take the time to find out.
Agreed and agreed! The purveyors pretty much have to be aware of the lying nature of what they're doing.

Their followers, though. . . I used to give a rain check to the ignorant and stupid. "They know not what they do," etc. I no longer feel that way bout Creationists, at least the adults. Ultimately, people are responsible for what they do, say, and believe. Fact-checking is everyone's responsibility. If you believe stuff only because some pastor tells you something that you want to believe, you are not only an ignorant fool, you are a willfully ignorant moron and asshole who deserves to be mocked.
I think too many people don't understand how scientific research is done, how very incremental and decentralized it typically is. Thinking that it's a more tight-knit group pushing many fewer but bigger scientific leaps makes a conspiracy, or a less intentional or organized case of groupthink and lack of skepticism (lol) of badly, in their view, established knowledge on the part of scientists, much easier for people to believe.
Right. Herding cats would be a breeze compared to recruiting millions of scientists to support a conspiracy.
Science education really needs to emphasize how hard it is for a theory to persist and how easy it is to kill or drastically change it in terms of amount of information needed. A single repeatable observation or found inconsistency can break major parts of a theory. When you only look at textbooks in school, you see all the highlights and main results without the minutiae that was needed to get to those points, and only hear about the superstars of science. Without a teacher who understands and emphasizes the incremental nature of science, students may not come to understand this, and may, therefore, be more susceptible to this nonsense.
Yup. Evolution would be falsified if only one Cretaceous Bunny were found in situ. Few kids are taught this simple fact. Unlike Creationism, evolution depends upon the unstinting cooperation of reality.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 06/30/2012 :  22:57:57   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Machi4velli

Originally posted by the_ignored

You're really not going to like this site then.




Did the third one just attack intelligent design without religion? Lol, thanks guys..
Yes it did. Because Ham hates ID for not being specific about the Designer. The cartoon is pretty obscure, though. I doubt most Creo supporters will know what Lietha's going on about. Creos are the kind of people to whom you need to explain every joke in monosyllables.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 06/30/2012 23:00:04
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2012 :  06:08:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by HalfMooner

The fourth cartoon (showing children bowing down to evolution) demonstrates a Big Lie that I did not cover in the OP: The lie that evolution (and by extension, secularism or atheism) is a religion. It's an especially irritating Big Lie, but it does serve to illustrate in a Freudian Slip manner that the Creationists know of nothing more evil than religion, and forcing children to toe a dogmatic line.
This can't be repeated enough. When creationists claim that evolution (or science, or atheism) is a religion, the implication is that religion is a bad thing which can't be trusted. The argument is an own goal.

(Except in those rare purely-legalistic cases where the claim is made solely to try to remove evolution from public school curricula without introducing creationist nonsense.)
Evolution would be falsified if only one Cretaceous Bunny were found in situ.
While the last common ancestor of rabbits and hares probably existed some 30-plus million years after the end of the Cretaceous, there were plenty of mammals in that earlier period. The cliched evolution-falsifier would be found, instead, at a time when there was nothing even resembling a mammal on the planet: it is the Devonian Bunny you're thinking of.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 07/01/2012 :  08:47:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

. . .

The cliched evolution-falsifier would be found, instead, at a time when there was nothing even resembling a mammal on the planet: it is the Devonian Bunny you're thinking of.
Yup. Devonian. I meant to write that.

Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 07/01/2012 08:48:44
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