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energyscholar
New Member

USA
39 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2012 :  04:27:14  Show Profile Send energyscholar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This thread is an addendum to the thread in

All Forums / Our Skeptic Forums / Conspiracy Theories / New General Technology?

Please read that thread before commenting here.

I wish to start discussion of the ethical issues, and possible solutions thereto, faced by the supposed project scientists of ULTRA II. Please suspend disbelief about the thesis proposed in that thread by EnergyScholar. Please pretend that ULTRA II really happened as described. This thread is intended to start after this point in the New General Technology? thread:

Before I describe in detail what I think the 'Plan' was, would anyone care to speculate as to its possible nature? There is a separate thread in

All Forums / Our Skeptic Forums / Social Issues / Ethical Issues of New General Technology?

for such speculation. Some ideas to consider:

1. The primary objective must be to prevent unethical use of QNN technology. This must prevent a QNN arms race between nations.
2. The secondary objective is to allow applications that seem ethically safe
3. Technical secrets never remain secret. On the scale of human history, secrets are short lived.
4. The physical system QNN patterns inhabit is composed of 2DEG environments in a FQHE fluid state
5. Only one QNN can inhabit a given environment. An arms race would lead to hostile QNNs competing for available environment.
6. The official ULTRA II QNN required cryogenic cooling.
7. It is possible to overcome the need for cryogenic cooling and operate at room temperature. Current science suggests this might be possible.
8. Any 2DEG environment can theoretically host a QNN. Each individual 2DEG environment is referred to as one node of the QNN it hosts.
9. 2DEG environments are common on planet Earth in 2012, and were not rare in 1995. Most modern Field Effect Transistors contain a 2DEG.
10. A QNN functions as a system, with the various nodes interlined communicating via quantum teleportation.
11. There must be some sort of classical back channel, but it can be steganographic in nature.
12. There may even, theoretically, be room for a QNN in Earth's magnetosphere, on the Plasma Sheet or Neutral Sheet. I am not sure of the science here, but those may bear enough resemblance to a 2DEG environment for that to be possible.
13. Humans are innately corruptible. No bureaucratic system that depends on human integrity could be expected to work for very long. Power corrupts.
14. Many applications of QNN technology have not been thought of yet.
15. Ethical implications of technology are notoriously hard to determine in advance.
16. Whatever they came up with had to stand the test of time
17. Remember Murphy's Law

Please post your comments about ethical ramifications of this proposed situation, which suspend disbelief about whether it actually occurred, to the Ethical Issues of New General Technology? forum. These could be ethical considerations, or might be theories for a 'Plan' that might work. I am very curious if this group of smart scientific skeptics can think of as wise a plan as the one I suspect was adopted.

--- TO BE CONTINUED ---


[Edited to add link to old thread - Dave W.]

"It is Easier to get Forgiveness than Permission" - Rear Admiral Grace Hopper

BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2012 :  06:13:49   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't know much about Skeptics huh?

First we require your speculation on the implications of excreteting fully functional SUVs.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1457 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2012 :  14:10:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd the following rewording fair? Ethical considerations of faster and faster computing.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2012 :  15:03:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by ThorGoLucky

I'd the following rewording fair? Ethical considerations of faster and faster computing.
The question does need rewording. I advised energyscholar to keep things simple, and the OP isn't.

Your proposed rewording doesn't quite get at the heart of the matter. It's the ethical considerations of insanely fast computing.

Basically, what would you do if you invented a technology capable of, say, rendering all current cryptography moot? Or of accurately cross-referencing and keyword-matching everyone's emails, faxes and phone calls nearly instantaneously, thus allowing a government to squash any nascent rebellion before it consists of more than two people? While there is potential for doing awesome things with the technology (finding cures for protein-folding diseases next week, anyone?), you also know that it will eventually get into the hands of those who would use it for evil. And simply destroying all your notes will do nothing, since other people are just as smart as you and figuring out the engineering trick(s) is a mere matter of time. So what would you do?

And yes, BPS, the premise is based on something that is indistinguishable from magic, at the moment. So this is a thread for philosophy, not reality. Your skepticism regarding the plausibility of the technology within the premise would still be appreciated in the original thread.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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energyscholar
New Member

USA
39 Posts

Posted - 11/30/2012 :  16:07:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send energyscholar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for cutting to the heart of the matter, Dave W. He understood exactly what I was trying to say, and phrased it in a much simpler way that means the same thing. He also addressed Thorsten's comment accurately. Please go with his rewording in your replies.


"It is Easier to get Forgiveness than Permission" - Rear Admiral Grace Hopper
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1457 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2012 :  08:04:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by ThorGoLucky

I'd the following rewording fair?

Damn you, iPad autocorrect!


As with any technology, it depends on how it's used and the need fo laws for accountability, deterrence of misuse, and punishment of abuse.

The thing that I most look forward to with faster computing is complex simulations. Such applications could find abiogenesis pathways. Exciting.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26004 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2012 :  21:31:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by ThorGoLucky

As with any technology, it depends on how it's used and the need fo laws for accountability, deterrence of misuse, and punishment of abuse.
I think we can safely assume that laws specific to the use and abuse of a new technology will follow (chronologically) that technology, and not be in place beforehand. Countries that lack general prohibitions against snooping aren't likely to have governments which will happily place limits on their own power in this regard.

And about the only thing protecting us (in the USA) from this hypothetical super-tool for espionage is the Fourth Amendment, and successful prosecution against government abuse of the technology will depend upon evidence that it was actually used, which will be damn hard to come by.

Will it be possible to use the technology to protect against its own misuse? Will it be possible to use the technology to force the government towards transparency? Would pre-emptively releasing all the details about the technology to the public accomplish anything in terms of protecting against its abuse?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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