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 Taking Daily Vitamins & Supplemen Healthful?
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2013 :  18:46:16  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
While I don't take daily supplements of any kind, many people do on a daily basis. I always believed that they couldn't hurt but still I never started the daily habit. Do you take a daily vitamin or supplements believing they can't hurt at worse or have positive benefits?

I came across a recent article that reports that vitamins and some supplements can cause more harm that good. This was news to me. So! I thought I'd post it here to see what others take of this article might be. It reports some surprising study results on the topic.

Link,,,In 2007, researchers from the National Cancer Institute examined 11,000 men who did or didn't take multivitamins. Those who took multivitamins were twice as likely to die from advanced prostate cancer.

In 2008, a review of all existing studies involving more than 230,000 people who did or did not receive supplemental antioxidants found that vitamins increased the risk of cancer and heart disease.

On October 10, 2011, researchers from the University of Minnesota evaluated 39,000 older women and found that those who took supplemental multivitamins, magnesium, zinc, copper, and iron died at rates higher than those who didn't. They concluded, "Based on existing evidence, we see little justification for the general and widespread use of dietary supplements."

Two days later, on October 12, researchers from the Cleveland Clinic published the results of a study of 36,000 men who took vitamin E, selenium, both, or neither. They found that those receiving vitamin E had a 17 percent greater risk of prostate cancer.,,,


Comments or thoughts?

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13458 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2013 :  20:34:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I take a megadose of B12 because of an anemia I have. Doctors orders. But yeah... I've seen that article by Paul Offit, and others who have come to the same conclusion. Unless you have a deficiency, there is no reason to take vitamin supplements. If you eat at all decently you will get what you need. Vegans might have to supplement with B12 as well because the source for it is animal. You might be interested in Paul Offit's book that we featured a couple of Summaries ago on the subject of alternative meds:

Do You Believe in Magic?: The Sense and Nonsense of Alternative Medicine

There is also this article by Steven Novella at Science-Based Medicine which concludes:

As is typical of observational studies, the results are somewhat mixed, depending upon the details of how such studies are conducted. There are also many variables to consider which vitamins and which doses in which populations with what health conditions. There is therefore a great deal of noise in the data. I do not think we can conclude that the vitamins listed above actually increase risk of mortality. But neither can we conclude that there is any health benefit for routine supplementation. Years of research have failed to provide such evidence, and the mixed results we are seeing is consistent with there being no or only a small effect.

Based upon the totality of evidence the best current recommendation is to have a well-rounded diet with sufficient fruits and vegetables, which should be able to provide most people with all the micronutrients they require. There is no evidence to support routine supplementation. There is also reason to avoid taking megadoses of vitamins, as this can cause toxicity, and even short of toxicity the evidence becomes more compelling at higher doses of the risks of supplementation...



Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2013 :  04:59:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Many people, skeptics included, do not understand that vitamins are powerful chemicals which can be overdosed. Our teaching methods are horrific in this regard, who would suspect that a large bowl of Total everyday(double serving) could cause bone degredation(Vit A? Many of the standard vitamins have been shown to cause damage in large ongoing doses.

I reccomend a 50% dose, once per week to make up for any particular vitamin your diet may be short of. You don't need to be taking 100% vitamin C every day to avoid scurvy.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25977 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2013 :  06:07:01   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

You don't need to be taking 100% vitamin C every day to avoid scurvy.
Overdosing on Vitamin C, it being water-soluble, just means pissing away money. Generally, what your body doesn't use, you'll excrete. You mostly won't get side-effects unless you're taking over 33 times the US RDA of vitamin C (unless you've got kidney disease already - there are always exceptions).

It's the fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E and K) where overdosing is a lot easier and leads to chronic problems.

Dietary minerals aren't so easily segregated, but overdose of just about all of them is possible, and can come from places one usually doesn't expect. Chronic magnesium toxicity, for example, can be found in people who daily drink water from galvanized buckets.
Originally posted by Kil

If you eat at all decently...
Some very few of us don't. My "diet" is essentially carbs and peanut butter, so I take a single daily multivitamin.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2013 :  06:33:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

You don't need to be taking 100% vitamin C every day to avoid scurvy.
Overdosing on Vitamin C, it being water-soluble, just means pissing away money. Generally, what your body doesn't use, you'll excrete. You mostly won't get side-effects unless you're taking over 33 times the US RDA of vitamin C (unless you've got kidney disease already - there are always exceptions).

It's the fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E and K) where overdosing is a lot easier and leads to chronic problems.

Dietary minerals aren't so easily segregated, but overdose of just about all of them is possible, and can come from places one usually doesn't expect. Chronic magnesium toxicity, for example, can be found in people who daily drink water from galvanized buckets.
Originally posted by Kil

If you eat at all decently...
Some very few of us don't. My "diet" is essentially carbs and peanut butter, so I take a single daily multivitamin.


I'm running with the idea that it may be possible to evolve within one lifetime into a creature which can survive solely on bacon and Coca-Cola... Having some set-backs.

I am however insisting that if I die of diet/exercise related illnesses that my death certificate says "Suicide by daily bacon" The best way to die, hands down.

Edit: this is not a cry for help, it's a cry for cooks who can produce for me bacon which is both crispy and flexable. If you're holding a newly cooked bacon by the end it should not flop over nor remain stiff...

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 08/05/2013 06:37:12
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The Rat
SFN Regular

Canada
1342 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2013 :  08:36:34   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit The Rat's Homepage Send The Rat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

Edit: this is not a cry for help, it's a cry for cooks who can produce for me bacon which is both crispy and flexable. If you're holding a newly cooked bacon by the end it should not flop over nor remain stiff...

You may be interested in this.


Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.

You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II

Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2013 :  09:49:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So! From replies, it appears that there is no known proven or demonstrated value for taking any supplements aside to address a know deficiency. Even your talking a standard daily vitamin of any "flavor", like "One a Day", children vit's, daily multivit's labeled for women or men (over 50 or not), the varieties are numerous. Good, no need to start.

Originally posted by Dave W.

You mostly won't get side-effects unless you're taking over 33 times the US RDA of vitamin C (unless you've got kidney disease already - there are always exceptions).

It's the fat-soluble vitamins (A, D, E and K) where overdosing is a lot easier and leads to chronic problems.

Dietary minerals aren't so easily segregated, but overdose of just about all of them is possible, and can come from places one usually doesn't expect. Chronic magnesium toxicity, for example, can be found in people who daily drink water from galvanized buckets.


Mega dosing is going way beyond anything I've been considering. Advocates of that are on their own with whatever that may do to them from what I care to address. I just love it when I read anywhere when a writer throws in "For most people the best advice is to ask your primary health care provider"


Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

I'm running with the idea that it may be possible to evolve within one lifetime into a creature which can survive solely on bacon and Coca-Cola... Having some set-backs.


That's pretty funny, at least for me! Because it plays on the fact that even with people who believe they understand evolution way to many as I see it don't fully understand the massive length of time and what is really involved with random beneficial mutations becoming widely incorporated in a specific gene pool. For example, I forget the youtube video but I once read a comment on one where the writer stated that because so many elephants were being hunted for their ivory that now elephants have evolved to not have tusks . She obviously believed that the mechanics of evolution allowed a species to, in real time, mutate from one generation to the next and that it some how magically happens to all new offspring of all existing animals. I did reply but it was way over her ability or willingness to comprehend. She replied back something to the effect "Oh yes they can and they did evolve into a tusk-less variation triggered by man's hunting habits". I decided to not waste my efforts. Others believe, as I've read, that humans will evolve to be immune to the effects of various toxins we're putting into our environment/food chain. As if evolutionary changes occur to all present members of a genotype and does not move through their direct offspring alone.

Thanks for the feedback people.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2013 :  10:14:25   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by The Rat

Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf

Edit: this is not a cry for help, it's a cry for cooks who can produce for me bacon which is both crispy and flexable. If you're holding a newly cooked bacon by the end it should not flop over nor remain stiff...

You may be interested in this.




While I do support any website which helps people cook bacon properly, I can't condone "Bacon recipies", as the only way to truly ruin bacon is to add it to other things.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard

3192 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2013 :  10:18:06   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send BigPapaSmurf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sailingsoul

That's pretty funny, at least for me! Because it plays on the fact that even with people who believe they understand evolution way to many as I see it don't fully understand the massive length of time and what is really involved with random beneficial mutations becoming widely incorporated in a specific gene pool. For example, I forget the youtube video but I once read a comment on one where the writer stated that because so many elephants were being hunted for their ivory that now elephants have evolved to not have tusks . She obviously believed that the mechanics of evolution allowed a species to, in real time, mutate from one generation to the next and that it some how magically happens to all new offspring of all existing animals. I did reply but it was way over her ability or willingness to comprehend. She replied back something to the effect "Oh yes they can and they did evolve into a tusk-less variation triggered by man's hunting habits". I decided to not waste my efforts. Others believe, as I've read, that humans will evolve to be immune to the effects of various toxins we're putting into our environment/food chain. As if evolutionary changes occur to all present members of a genotype and does not move through their direct offspring alone.

Thanks for the feedback people.


Dang it, you made me think of the idiocy of Kevin Costner's gills in Waterworld, thanks a lot.

"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History

"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2013 :  15:18:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Be careful what you wish for BPS or move to Japan and live happy while you can.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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