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 Who Really Shut Down the Government and Why.
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2013 :  09:51:37  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Meet the 80 republicans who shut down the Government, hear about who they represent and why they don't have any fear of reprisals. They might not have to worry at all about being held accountable by their constituents but there are other republicans who may not be so secure next election cycle. Those that don't have the same lock on their districts. Until then I don't see how there is going to be much of anything but this kind of dysfunction in Washington.

Sadly I don't see the democrats developing a clue on how to respond effectively with this bullshit. I expect the dem's to totally miss out with getting any mileage from what's going on here, just like they always do. They are out matched controlling the media and voters response.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS

Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26012 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2013 :  11:09:58   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
According to TPM, the cause is really just one guy: Senator Ted Cruz. TPM quotes Grover Norquist:
"[Cruz] said if the House would simply pass the bill with defunding he would force the Senate to act. He would lead this grass-roots movement that would get Democrats to change their mind. So the House passed it, it went to the Senate, and Ted Cruz said, oh, we dont have the votes over here."

"And I cant find the e-mails or ads targeting Democrats to support it," Norquist added. "Cruz said he would deliver the votes and he didnt deliver any Democratic votes. He pushed House Republicans into traffic and wandered away."

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2013 :  11:15:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
SS:
Sadly I don't see the democrats developing a clue on how to respond effectively with this bullshit. I expect the dem's to totally miss out with getting any mileage from what's going on here, just like they always do. They are out matched controlling the media and voters response.

They are making mincemeat of the Republicans, even in the media. They have not missed a beat. I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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The Rat
SFN Regular

Canada
1342 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2013 :  16:56:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit The Rat's Homepage Send The Rat a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Looks like Cruz is even more whack than I thought.


Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.

You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II

Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2013 :  16:58:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

According to TPM, the cause is really just one guy: Senator Ted Cruz. TPM quotes Grover Norquist:
"[Cruz] said if the House would simply pass the bill with defunding he would force the Senate to act. He would lead this grass-roots movement that would get Democrats to change their mind. So the House passed it, it went to the Senate, and Ted Cruz said, oh, we dont have the votes over here."

"And I cant find the e-mails or ads targeting Democrats to support it," Norquist added. "Cruz said he would deliver the votes and he didnt deliver any Democratic votes. He pushed House Republicans into traffic and wandered away."

That scenario doesn't have to be all what went down. Somebody wrote that up and that in itself doesn't make it fact all by itself, there is other shit going on, to put it simply. Ok, please straighten me out on this. If I don't get it, I can't be the only one.

So, are you saying, he was bluffing (lying) and no one called his bluff? That the shut down didn't have to happen? I don't see it, however that may or may not be the case. Please explain why you think that is, I not seeing it from these.

#1, There WHERE 80 signatures that signed that letter to John Boehner over a month age. It's not just Cruz on that letter.

#2, Cruz isn't the only human being in Washington who can poll other members of the house & senate and count up who stands where. Nobody knew who's was going to vote how but Cruz?

So now here we are with the government shut down, and it turns out Cruz really can't count or was lying, along with all those who couldn't count to see if it was a true possibility or not? I find that ludicrous. I not saying I'm right, what am I missing here?

Depending on how long this goes on it could end up costing a lot. Does anyone think the Koch bros' are going to pay this shortage of revenue? The poor are going to pay for this with reduced social funding. It sure as hell isn't coming from spending reductions with federal fossil fuel subsidies.
Link
The Office of Management and Budget estimated that two government shutdowns in 1995 and 1996, totaling 27 days, cost the federal government $1.4 billion. That's over $2 billion in today's dollars on costs like back pay to furloughed federal workers and uncollected fines and taxes.
That's the cost for the "two government shutdowns in 1995 and 1996, totaling 27 days". This could go on how long? The day count has already started and counting.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular

USA
854 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2013 :  22:31:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Machi4velli a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sailingsoul
That's the cost for the "two government shutdowns in 1995 and 1996, totaling 27 days". This could go on how long? The day count has already started and counting.


Yes, but you see, the shutdown in 1996 sparked the upcoming economic boom! (http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/29/u-s-economy-boomed-during-19951996-shutdown/)

Saw this on Fox the other day, lol. Of course the boom was... a bubble... and shutdowns had nothing to with it.

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking

"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular

USA
854 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2013 :  22:34:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Machi4velli a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by The Rat


Looks like Cruz is even more whack than I thought.




Why are they always also religious zealots? Hell, I might even find a niche on the fiscal conservative side if I didn't have to stomach this nonsense.

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking

"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2013 :  16:12:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Kil

They are making mincemeat of the Republicans, even in the media. They have not missed a beat. I wouldn't worry too much about that. (bolding by SS)
I do worry am concerned about it but not for the reasons you might think. At least one of us is off the hook worrying. You seem to think they've been doing a bang up job exposing the Repub's for what they are or doing. I don't see that happening where it's needed and I'll explain why.

I would wager and I'm not a betting man, that the Republican house members who are the 80 signatories of that letter sent to John "Boner" know very well what they're doing for their constituents desires, the people who voted them in office (American citizens). How many of those would you, Kil, say would agree with you? I would venture to say they're not seeing it anywhere like you are in "their" media. They're not seeing anyone making mincemeat out of the Republicans, their representatives who ARE going to bat for them right now, that's what they're seeing, imo. As the video covers, which could be wrong but I'm taking it at face value for now, these 80 votes in the House are doing a bang up job, standing up to "OBAMA".

The same OBAMA that's got them seeing red and they have been brain washed into believing is, 1) not a native born American, 2) is a Muslim, 3) is a socialist, 4)is a communist and lastly but most despicable, 5) he is a "n-word". These voters are highly religious, highly white, mostly poor and highly MANIPULATED by their corporate owned and mega corporate serving media. They are Not hearing the Republicans being made mincemeat. That's my point Kil. Perhaps you don't see it that was but I do.

It's no accident there is in "Arlington, Va." a conservative group that spent almost all of $256 million last election (2012) against Democrats which wasn't even on anyone's radar. $256 million when total super PAC money spent was http://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/summ.php?cycle=2010&disp=O&type=S']Link.Link. This government shut down was paid for then, the Koch bro's and the super PAC's.

This democracy has been taken over by the Super Rich who will survive bankrupting and destroying the country if things don't change. Very much unlike those on the bottom and in the middle. I hope your right Kil and I'm wrong.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2013 :  16:26:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Machi4velli

Why are they always also religious zealots?
I use to think they are the most gullible but I now know that's not necessarily true. It is a good question, I'd like know the answer to.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular

USA
854 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2013 :  20:36:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Machi4velli a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by sailingsoul

Originally posted by Machi4velli

Why are they always also religious zealots?
I use to think they are the most gullible but I now know that's not necessarily true. It is a good question, I'd like know the answer to.


I used to think it was a political move to pander and get support from folks that don't really even have an economic opinion, but I don't know, I'm beginning to think they actually believe it...

"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno

"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking

"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2013 :  23:44:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
SS. They are trying to find a way out with dignity. They already lost the PR battle. Now they just want a bone thrown their way.

This point was not lost on NPR's Tamara Keith, who asked Meadows why the House doesn't just vote on "a full CR if you don't care about Obamacare anymore." If you listen to the audio, there's an awkward silence that lasts about five seconds. Eventually, the congressman says, "Why not vote on, on a full CR?"

Keith replies, "Yeah, sure. Because if you're, if Obamacare isn't the issue to you anymore..." At this point, Meadows tried this explanation:

"Because it, twofold.One is, is, that when you when you start to look, they say 'clean CR?' That it, it translates into into to truly a blank check, and, and so Obamacare is an issue for me and my constituents, but what happens is today is, we gotta figure a way to open it back up and, and with that, in opening it back up, when we start to look at these issues, it, it is critical that we make it, the decisions we, we make to be as least harmful as they possibly can be."

So to review, the reason the House can't vote on the Senate spending bill is an incoherent word salad, filled with lots of words that seem unrelated to one another.

Remember, Mark Meadows isn't some random guy off the street; he's an elected member of Congress who helped write the strategy that House Republicans followed to shut down the government.

To be sure, it was absolutely amazing to hear Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-Ind.) argue that House Republicans are "not going to be disrespected. We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."


Republicans struggle to understand their own shutdown plan

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13467 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2013 :  23:54:53   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fox News Poll Finds Disapproval Of GOP Skyrocketing After They Shut Down Government

According to the Fox News poll, disapproval of the Republican Party has jumped from 46% in September of 2012 to 59% today. Disapproval of the GOP has climbed from 54% in January to 56% in April to nearing 60% today. Approval of the Republican Party has fallen from 45% to 35%. In contrast, Democratic Party unfavorability has stayed stable in the Fox poll at between 48% and 49% all through 2013.

Support for repealing the ACA has dropped from 39% in June to 30% today. This could mean that the linking of funding the government to defunding or delaying the ACA has completely backfired on the Republican Party. The number of Americans who think that they will be better off under Obamacare has risen by 7 points from 34% to 41%, and by a margin of 36%-19% respondents thought that Ted Cruzs fake filibuster hurt efforts to repeal the ACA.

Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2013 :  00:30:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All good news with a serving of word salad!

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1461 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2013 :  19:24:19   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Intransigent ideologues. Sigh.
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1461 Posts

Posted - 10/07/2013 :  18:24:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Roy Zimmerman's take on the House Republicans trying to usurp powers from the other branches of government.

http://youtu.be/Q-mE0hUh0sE
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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2558 Posts

Posted - 10/20/2013 :  20:47:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Frank Schaeffer calls out the true cause of the shutdown, in my opinon.

>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.
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