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Rumtopf
Banned

126 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2014 :  20:58:51  Show Profile Send Rumtopf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Deceptive Allegations And Unethical Evasiveness By Lead Archaeologist Cause Skeptics To Suspect Fraud At Treblinka II Archaeology Site.

Orthodox historians allege that the remains of approximately 900,000 people are currently buried in 11 extant “graves” at the very small, precisely known location of - Treblinka II.

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6893

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8259

However, it is an irrefutable fact that “archaeologist” Caroline Sturdy Colls did not actually locate / prove the existence of a single real grave that contains the remains of so-much-as - 1 / 1,000 of 1 % - of the alleged buried bodies.

If you deny this irrefutable fact, then it begs the simple question:

Where is the so-called “proof” and what are the names of the forensic experts who have explicitly endorsed it?

To determine for yourself whether or not Colls Treblinka II “dig” is legitimate or fraudulent, here are:

Five Very Simple Investigatory Questions About Caroline Sturdy Colls Suspiciously Vague Archaeological “Investigation” at Treblinka II

(Legitimate scientists do not fear answering pertinent questions about their claimed discoveries.)

# 1 - Is it known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science that, at - Treblinka II - there are extant graves in which actual human remains have literally been - physically unearthed / tangibly located - by legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators? - Yes. - or - No. __?__

# 2 - At Treblinka II, it is known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that, to date, no less than __?__ extant graves have been discovered, in which legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators have - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented forensic science - literally / truly - physically unearthed / tangibly located - actual, verifiable, scientifically proven human remains.

# 3 - Is it true or false that, at - Treblinka II - there were actual trash and/or trash burning pits and/or latrine pits / trenches and/or water wells that were dug / used as such by the Germans - during their time of occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

# 4 - Is it true or false that, at - Treblinka II - there were numerous exploratory excavations dug by so-called “robbery diggers / treasure seekers,” and/or by Soviet / Polish investigators - after the time of German occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

# 5 - Is it true or false that, extraneous cremation remains have been deposited at - Treblinka II - after the time of German occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__


(Remember, the issue here isn’t about history per se - it's about the duplicity of the sham archaeologists who fraudulently claim that they have scientifically proven it.)

Edited by - Rumtopf on 01/16/2014 21:32:27

Dave W.
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Posted - 01/16/2014 :  22:10:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Rumtopf

...WITH 100 % CERTAINTY...
Remember, the issue here isn't history per se, it's about the people who think that science allows "100% CERTAINTY" about anything.

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Rumtopf
Banned

126 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2014 :  22:36:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Rumtopf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Are you 100% certain about what the issue is here Dave? - Yes. - or - No. __?__

Anyway, let's see if we can change the questions a bit to satisfy Dave:

# 1 - Is it known - WITH THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF CERTAINTY ACHIEVABLE BY SCIENTISTS AND ACCEPTED BY DAVE W - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science that, at - Treblinka II - there are extant graves in which actual human remains have literally been - physically unearthed / tangibly located - by legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators? - Yes. - or - No. __?__

# 2 - At Treblinka II, it is known - WITH THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF CERTAINTY ACHIEVABLE BY SCIENTISTS AND ACCEPTED BY DAVE W - that, to date, no less than __?__ extant graves have been discovered, in which legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators have - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented forensic science - literally / truly - physically unearthed / tangibly located - actual, verifiable, scientifically proven human remains.

# 3 - Is it true or false that, at - Treblinka II - there were actual trash and/or trash burning pits and/or latrine pits / trenches and/or water wells that were dug / used as such by the Germans - during their time of occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

# 4 - Is it true or false that, at - Treblinka II - there were numerous exploratory excavations dug by so-called “robbery diggers / treasure seekers,” and/or by Soviet / Polish investigators - after the time of German occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

# 5 - Is it true or false that, extraneous cremation remains have been deposited at - Treblinka II - after the time of German occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__


How's that Dave - can we have your answers now?
Edited by - Rumtopf on 01/16/2014 23:26:16
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2014 :  06:05:56   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Rumtopf

Are you 100% certain about what the issue is here Dave? - Yes. - or - No. __?__
I'm certain that at least part of the issue is that you're harping on someone's scientific accuracy while making mistakes about scientific accuracy yourself. Kinda funny, really.

The issue you appear to be pushing is that Caroline Sturdy Colls is a fraud, but why should I (or anyone else here) care about that? Colls' work isn't definitive, nor is it the only evidence there is.

(Love the checkboxes, by the way. They make me feel like I'm back in junior high.)
Anyway, let's see if we can change the questions a bit to satisfy Dave: ...WITH THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF CERTAINTY ACHIEVABLE BY SCIENTISTS...
No, that doesn't help at all. Do you understand the nature of an asymtote? Or the philosophical foundations of scientific knowledge?

Going back a bit...
Orthodox historians allege that the remains of approximately 900,000 people are currently buried in 11 extant “graves” at the very small, precisely known location of - Treblinka II.
Name two "orthodox historians" who make such claims. Caroline Sturdy Colls is not one of them.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2014 :  06:46:04   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Dave brings up a very good point that shouldn't be glossed over but I expect it will go unaddressed.
Originally posted by Dave W.

Colls' work isn't definitive, nor is it the only evidence there is.
Throwing out completely the Colls' work changes nothing about the evidence and reality which this is really about or with why it's an issue with Rumtopf.

Why is this so important to you Rumtopf seeing how this happened before you were born and where you most likely had no family blood in this part of history?

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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Rumtopf
Banned

126 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2014 :  10:46:45   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Rumtopf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
DW:

"Colls' work isn't definitive, nor is it the only evidence there is."

Really? Tell us more about the so-called evidence of mass graves

# 2 - At Treblinka II, it is known - WITH THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF CERTAINTY ACHIEVABLE BY SCIENTISTS AND ACCEPTED BY DAVE W - that, to date, no less than __?__ extant graves have been discovered, in which legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators have - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented forensic science - literally / truly - physically unearthed / tangibly located - actual, verifiable, scientifically proven human remains.

SS:

"Throwing out completely the Colls' work changes nothing about the evidence"

Really? Tell us more about the so-called evidence of mass graves

# 1 - Is it known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science that, at - Treblinka II - there are extant graves in which actual human remains have literally been - physically unearthed / tangibly located - by legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators? - Yes. - or - No. __?__


It is an irrefutable fact that “archaeologist” Caroline Sturdy Colls did not actually locate / prove the existence of a single real grave that contains the remains of so-much-as - 1 / 1,000 of 1 % - of the alleged buried bodies.

If you deny this irrefutable fact, then it begs the simple question:

Where is the so-called “proof” and what are the names of the forensic experts who have explicitly endorsed it?
Edited by - Rumtopf on 01/17/2014 10:58:14
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2014 :  15:58:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Rumtopf

Really? Tell us more about the so-called evidence of mass graves
Again, because you didn't answer me before: name two "orthodox historians" who claim there are "mass graves" of "approximately 900,000 people" who are "currently buried" at Treblinka II. You claim there are such historians (note the plural), you back it up. Then we can discuss Colls' work.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Rumtopf
Banned

126 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2014 :  17:14:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Rumtopf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I asked you these questions first Dave:

Are you 100% certain about what the issue is here Dave? - Yes. - or - No. __?__

Anyway, let's see if we can change the questions a bit to satisfy Dave:

# 1 - Is it known - WITH THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF CERTAINTY ACHIEVABLE BY SCIENTISTS AND ACCEPTED BY DAVE W - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science that, at - Treblinka II - there are extant graves in which actual human remains have literally been - physically unearthed / tangibly located - by legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators? - Yes. - or - No. __?__

# 2 - At Treblinka II, it is known - WITH THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF CERTAINTY ACHIEVABLE BY SCIENTISTS AND ACCEPTED BY DAVE W - that, to date, no less than __?__ extant graves have been discovered, in which legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators have - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented forensic science - literally / truly - physically unearthed / tangibly located - actual, verifiable, scientifically proven human remains.

# 3 - Is it true or false that, at - Treblinka II - there were actual trash and/or trash burning pits and/or latrine pits / trenches and/or water wells that were dug / used as such by the Germans - during their time of occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

# 4 - Is it true or false that, at - Treblinka II - there were numerous exploratory excavations dug by so-called “robbery diggers / treasure seekers,” and/or by Soviet / Polish investigators - after the time of German occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

# 5 - Is it true or false that, extraneous cremation remains have been deposited at - Treblinka II - after the time of German occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2014 :  17:26:26   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Rumtopf

I asked you these questions first Dave:
I know, but if not even two "orthodox historians" are making the claims you say they're making, then your questions are largely moot.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Rumtopf
Banned

126 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2014 :  17:47:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Rumtopf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I asked you these questions first Dave:

Are you 100% certain about what the issue is here Dave? - Yes. - or - No. __?__

Anyway, let's see if we can change the questions a bit to satisfy Dave:

# 1 - Is it known - WITH THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF CERTAINTY ACHIEVABLE BY SCIENTISTS AND ACCEPTED BY DAVE W - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science that, at - Treblinka II - there are extant graves in which actual human remains have literally been - physically unearthed / tangibly located - by legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators? - Yes. - or - No. __?__

# 2 - At Treblinka II, it is known - WITH THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF CERTAINTY ACHIEVABLE BY SCIENTISTS AND ACCEPTED BY DAVE W - that, to date, no less than __?__ extant graves have been discovered, in which legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators have - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented forensic science - literally / truly - physically unearthed / tangibly located - actual, verifiable, scientifically proven human remains.

# 3 - Is it true or false that, at - Treblinka II - there were actual trash and/or trash burning pits and/or latrine pits / trenches and/or water wells that were dug / used as such by the Germans - during their time of occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

# 4 - Is it true or false that, at - Treblinka II - there were numerous exploratory excavations dug by so-called “robbery diggers / treasure seekers,” and/or by Soviet / Polish investigators - after the time of German occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

# 5 - Is it true or false that, extraneous cremation remains have been deposited at - Treblinka II - after the time of German occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

Dave:

[/quote]I know [quote]
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1457 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2014 :  18:05:44   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Rumtopf, an unorthodox historian makes a dubious claim, therefore all verified claims from orthodox historians are called onto question? Is that what your driving at here?





Edited by - ThorGoLucky on 01/17/2014 18:06:43
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2014 :  18:06:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Did you have more to add, or are you going to just repeat your questions and thus miss the point of mine?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Why not question something for a change?
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Rumtopf
Banned

126 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2014 :  18:49:48   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Rumtopf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's six times now that Dave W has refused to answer these:

Five Very Simple Investigatory Questions About Caroline Sturdy Colls Suspiciously Vague Archaeological “Investigation” at Treblinka II

(Legitimate scientists do not fear answering pertinent questions about their claimed discoveries.)

# 1 - Is it known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science that, at - Treblinka II - there are extant graves in which actual human remains have literally been - physically unearthed / tangibly located - by legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators? - Yes. - or - No. __?__

# 2 - At Treblinka II, it is known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that, to date, no less than __?__ extant graves have been discovered, in which legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators have - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented forensic science - literally / truly - physically unearthed / tangibly located - actual, verifiable, scientifically proven human remains.

# 3 - Is it true or false that, at - Treblinka II - there were actual trash and/or trash burning pits and/or latrine pits / trenches and/or water wells that were dug / used as such by the Germans - during their time of occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

# 4 - Is it true or false that, at - Treblinka II - there were numerous exploratory excavations dug by so-called “robbery diggers / treasure seekers,” and/or by Soviet / Polish investigators - after the time of German occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

# 5 - Is it true or false that, extraneous cremation remains have been deposited at - Treblinka II - after the time of German occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

* * * * *

What are you waiting for Dave?

What are you so afraid of?

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Rumtopf
Banned

126 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2014 :  18:54:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Rumtopf a Private Message  Reply with Quote
ThorGoLucky:

"Rumtopf, an unorthodox historian makes a dubious claim, therefore all verified claims from orthodox historians are called onto question? Is that what your driving at here?"

No ThorGoLucky, what I'm driving at is - despite the fraudulent cognitive illusions to the contrary:

It is an irrefutable fact that “archaeologist” Caroline Sturdy Colls did not actually locate / prove the existence of a single real grave that contains the remains of so-much-as - 1 / 1,000 of 1 % - of the alleged buried bodies.

If you deny this irrefutable fact, then it begs the simple question:

Where is the so-called “proof” and what are the names of the forensic experts who have explicitly endorsed it?

To determine for yourself whether or not Colls Treblinka II “dig” is legitimate or fraudulent, here are:

Five Very Simple Investigatory Questions About Caroline Sturdy Colls Suspiciously Vague Archaeological “Investigation” at Treblinka II

(Legitimate scientists do not fear answering pertinent questions about their claimed discoveries.)

# 1 - Is it known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented archaeology / forensic science that, at - Treblinka II - there are extant graves in which actual human remains have literally been - physically unearthed / tangibly located - by legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators? - Yes. - or - No. __?__

# 2 - At Treblinka II, it is known - WITH 100 % CERTAINTY - that, to date, no less than __?__ extant graves have been discovered, in which legitimate archaeologists / crime scene investigators have - via bona fide, verifiably honest and conclusively documented forensic science - literally / truly - physically unearthed / tangibly located - actual, verifiable, scientifically proven human remains.

# 3 - Is it true or false that, at - Treblinka II - there were actual trash and/or trash burning pits and/or latrine pits / trenches and/or water wells that were dug / used as such by the Germans - during their time of occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

# 4 - Is it true or false that, at - Treblinka II - there were numerous exploratory excavations dug by so-called “robbery diggers / treasure seekers,” and/or by Soviet / Polish investigators - after the time of German occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__

# 5 - Is it true or false that, extraneous cremation remains have been deposited at - Treblinka II - after the time of German occupation? - TRUE. - or - FALSE. __?__
Edited by - Rumtopf on 01/17/2014 18:57:06
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2014 :  19:11:35   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If not answering questions is a sign of fear, Rumtopf, then you're a coward, too. So what are you so afraid of?

Of course, since I've never claimed to be a "legitimate scientist" who has claimed any discoveries about Treblinka II, and no such scientists hang out at the SFN, your attempt to goad me into answering your questions by asserting cowardice falls completely flat. I have no dog in this fight, but it's obvious that you do, Rumtopf. But you're too chickenshit to ask a legitimate scientist your questions, so instead you're doing so here, a relatively obscure Internet forum, where you get to pretend you're the courageous fighter for Truth.

Besides, if I answer Greg Gerdes, I can get $70,000 (up from $700 just a month ago!). Where's your enticement, Rumtopf? You're copycat without deep pockets, it seems.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26000 Posts

Posted - 01/17/2014 :  19:12:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Rumtopf

It is an irrefutable fact that “archaeologist” Caroline Sturdy Colls did not actually locate / prove the existence of a single real grave that contains the remains of so-much-as - 1 / 1,000 of 1 % - of the alleged buried bodies.
When did she ever claim to have made such a discovery?

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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