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the_ignored
SFN Addict

2548 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2014 :  22:04:45  Show Profile Send the_ignored a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And yes, this is a real person. I'll just post the link as they explain it better than I can:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/Fundieflawed/permalink/595166870561513

Here is a full description of the problem:

Talanted Linux kernal writer gets ill, loses job, fails to get others, ends up with no money, no assets, no driver's license, in a roach hotel 3 months behind in rent, 2 months behind in payments on life-saving and job-obtaining phone payments and is seen losing consciousness from ketoacidosis (an effect of starvation in the presences of Type 1 diabetes) during a hang out session. Social worker at the hospital leaves her job before the social and health assistance paperwork is completed and Nadia is back on the streets again with all her health issues (history of heart attack, Type 1 diabetes, no functioning thyroid gland, seizures) and no means of maintaining her health and safety, let alone getting a job.
Enter the Atheist Angels who are trying to reverse the tragedy as best they can - just because it is the right thing to do.


>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.

What brought that on? this. Original posting here.

Another example of this guy's lunacy here.

Edited by - the_ignored on 02/18/2014 22:08:45

Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9648 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2014 :  12:22:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That page only seems to be open to members. Do you have another link?

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular

United Kingdom
1253 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2014 :  02:58:05   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send On fire for Christ a Private Message  Reply with Quote
don't you guys have welfare?

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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4823 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2014 :  07:08:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

don't you guys have welfare?


Yes, but the requesting process is long and they take every opportunity (without regard to medical issues) to deny it to people. You aren't eligible if you've made too much in the previous year. Unemployment insurance doesn't pay dick no matter how much you've paid into the system. Section 8 (housing assistance) housing tends to be in gang infested scary areas. On top of that, they barely pay subsistance amounts (circa 1950) for food.

We need comprehensive welfare reform. One that provides a bridge to work that will support the person based on how much was paid into the system (with a base amount as well based on how much it actually costs to feed and house people in the present day).

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

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Convinced
Skeptic Friend

USA
384 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2014 :  11:34:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Convinced a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by On fire for Christ

don't you guys have welfare?
It is the churches responsibility to step in where the government programs can't or won't help. It is really an indictment on the American church. It is clear our command is to help the needy but most churches in America have turned in to narcissistic self-help programs that have nothing to do with the mission of the church given to us by Jesus. Most mega churches spend millions on marketing and services that provide high dollar entertainment with self-help messages that focus on the members and not on Jesus (Joel Olsteen, Stephen Furtick, Perry Nobel, Rick Warren etc.) all the while teaching unbiblical doctrine on tithing so they can bilk the members money. That is where the American church is heading.

Christians have more than enough resources to help many more people than we do. Jesus said they will know us by our love for others, in this we have greatly failed in America.

Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17)
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9648 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2014 :  13:14:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Convinced
Most mega churches spend millions on marketing and services that provide high dollar entertainment with self-help messages that focus on the members and not on Jesus (Joel Olsteen, Stephen Furtick, Perry Nobel, Rick Warren etc.) all the while teaching unbiblical doctrine on tithing so they can bilk the members money.

Don't forget snorting cocaine and sodomizing(?) male prostitutes...


(Appropriet quote from Blackadder:)
Bishop of Bath and Wells: "Never, in all my years, have I encountered such cruel and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the church?"

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

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Convinced
Skeptic Friend

USA
384 Posts

Posted - 02/21/2014 :  13:37:22   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Convinced a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Originally posted by Convinced
Most mega churches spend millions on marketing and services that provide high dollar entertainment with self-help messages that focus on the members and not on Jesus (Joel Olsteen, Stephen Furtick, Perry Nobel, Rick Warren etc.) all the while teaching unbiblical doctrine on tithing so they can bilk the members money.

Don't forget snorting cocaine and sodomizing(?) male prostitutes...


(Appropriet quote from Blackadder:)
Bishop of Bath and Wells: "Never, in all my years, have I encountered such cruel and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the church?"
This stems from the fact that only about 15% of Americans that claim to be Christians believe what the bible says about how to be saved. There is a lot of good going on in Christianity in America but many are using Christianity for their gain. For example Furtick has a $1.7M home and won’t divulge how he paid for it, he plants people in his services to be the first to go up to manipulate people to go forward, he is combative against criticism, demands “sacrificial” giving, has a code that members must adhere to his vision and he calls himself a Christian. He would not know Christian doctrine if it hit him in the head. There are many many more in America.

Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17)
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9648 Posts

Posted - 02/22/2014 :  02:37:10   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Apart from the No True Scotsman fallacy, I'll have to take your word for it.






Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
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Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 02/22/2014 02:39:47
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict

2830 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2014 :  15:51:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send sailingsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Convinced

This stems from the fact that only about 15% of Americans that claim to be Christians believe what the bible says about how to be saved.
Is that fact at 15% a "guestimate" or do you have a source for that 15% figure, either way what is it based on? I'm not really sure what your saying about the other 85%. Is it that 85% don't believe the bible on what it takes to be saved as a Christian? It's not clear.

There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9648 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2014 :  09:54:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Apart from the No True Scotsman fallacy, I'll have to take your word for it.
As sailingsoul indicated above, I made a slight error. I forgot to phrase this as a question.
I should have read "I have to take your word for it?"
"This stems from the fact that only about 15% of Americans that claim to be Christians believe what the bible says about how to be saved."
I can't recall ever seeing seen this claim before. Where does it come from, and by what criteria are people judged or otherwise categorised not to be saved?


(It reminds me of a funny story about new arrivals in Heaven and Pentecostals, but this is the wrong forum for it..)
Edited formatting.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
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Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 02/26/2014 13:24:41
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4823 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2014 :  06:58:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Apart from the No True Scotsman fallacy, I'll have to take your word for it.
As sailingsoul indicated above, I made a slight error. I forgot to phrase this as a question.
I should have read "I have to take your word for it?"
This stems from the fact that only about 15% of Americans that claim to be Christians believe what the bible says about how to be saved.
I can't recall ever seeing seen this claim before. Where does it come from, and by what criteria are people judged or otherwise categorised not to be saved?


(It reminds me of a funny story about new arrivals in Heaven and Pentecostals, but this is the wrong forum for it..)
Edited formatting.


I have. But then again, my brother is one of them.

What this boils down to is that the claimant is a member of a fundamentalist evangelical subsect of Christianity. Fundamentalist evangelicals (or charismatics) only count their own numbers when determining how many believe what the Bible says about how to be saved. Anyone not in full compliance with that interpretation (including any inserting of Grace), is part of the 85%.

This explains a lot about American politics of the last 40 years.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend

USA
384 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2014 :  14:45:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Convinced a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse

Apart from the No True Scotsman fallacy, I'll have to take your word for it.
As sailingsoul indicated above, I made a slight error. I forgot to phrase this as a question.
I should have read "I have to take your word for it?"
"This stems from the fact that only about 15% of Americans that claim to be Christians believe what the bible says about how to be saved."
I can't recall ever seeing seen this claim before. Where does it come from, and by what criteria are people judged or otherwise categorised not to be saved?


(It reminds me of a funny story about new arrivals in Heaven and Pentecostals, but this is the wrong forum for it..)
Edited formatting.
I get this number from a book called UnChristian. It is written by David Kinnamen from the Barna Research Group. In it they had a poll that asked Americans seven questions about the basics of Christian faith. Some were, Is Jesus God, Did Jesus die on the cross for forgiveness of sins, was Jesus resurrection real, Is God a trinity, Is the bible authoritative, is heaven real and one more I cannot remember, maybe about hell. Only 7% answered them all with a yes, and 15% answered at least three of the seven with a yes. I would say at least five of the questions were not in any way controversial or up to much interpretation. No one knows what the real number is but it is closer to 15% than 80%.

Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17)
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend

USA
384 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2014 :  14:47:14   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Convinced a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

I have. But then again, my brother is one of them.

What this boils down to is that the claimant is a member of a fundamentalist evangelical subsect of Christianity. Fundamentalist evangelicals (or charismatics) only count their own numbers when determining how many believe what the Bible says about how to be saved. Anyone not in full compliance with that interpretation (including any inserting of Grace), is part of the 85%.

This explains a lot about American politics of the last 40 years.
You have no way of knowing this. Look at my response to Dr. Mabuse.

Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17)
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9648 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2014 :  17:34:13   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Convinced
I would say at least five of the questions were not in any way controversial or up to much interpretation. No one knows what the real number is but it is closer to 15% than 80%.
I thought Romans 10:9 was pretty much the definitive word regarding salvation.

What else do I need?


Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
25887 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2014 :  21:22:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Convinced

I would say at least five of the questions were not in any way controversial or up to much interpretation.
Of course you would. But since it's all made-up anyway, I could define "real" Christians as only those who see Jesus in their toast (presumably leaving you out of the club), and it'd be just as legitimate a standard to go by.

If and only if your particular interpretation of the Bible is justifiably true with a rational basis (and "the Bible says so" is not sufficient) do you get to claim to be a "truer" Christian than any other self-proclaimed Christian. Because as far as I'm concerned, you're just one more self-proclaimed Christian. God isn't publicly defending your interpretation of "his" words, so there is no absolute standard by which an unbiased observer could judge your fealty.

It is impossible to read the Bible without interpretation. The mere act of comprehension is interpretation, even in one's native tongue (and I doubt you read Hebrew or Koine Greek).

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
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Why not question something for a change?
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4823 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2014 :  06:39:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Convinced

Originally posted by Valiant Dancer

I have. But then again, my brother is one of them.

What this boils down to is that the claimant is a member of a fundamentalist evangelical subsect of Christianity. Fundamentalist evangelicals (or charismatics) only count their own numbers when determining how many believe what the Bible says about how to be saved. Anyone not in full compliance with that interpretation (including any inserting of Grace), is part of the 85%.

This explains a lot about American politics of the last 40 years.
You have no way of knowing this. Look at my response to Dr. Mabuse.


I do have a way of knowing this because according to Pew research, 15% of Christians are fundamentalist evangelicals.

The other research, from what you have presented, did not limit itself to only Christians but only Americans in general.

In looking at Barna Research Group, One sees that Barna is a fundamentalist evangelical research group that focuses on churches. It consists of two people. George Barna (who started the company) and David Kinnamen who bought his way into the group.

Based on the questions you cite, if he had asked them of only Christians, the percentage of people answering "yes" to three of the 7 questions should have been 100% as Jesus = God, Christ on cross for forgiveness, and holy trinity are core beliefs of christianity in general. Something doesn't pass the smell test about this poll. Lots of ways to poll people and cherry pick data to get to a required answer. Other ways to misrepresent those answers to intimate a result that is not there.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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