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 Keystone XL Pipeline
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1486 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2014 :  09:52:37  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My understanding is that Canada is going to transport and sell their ill-gotten* oil, whether through a pipeline or trains, barges and trucks. So if not through the pipeline, it would be even more polluting, no?

*it takes much energy and environmental damage to get oil from shale.

Kil
Evil Skeptic

USA
13476 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2014 :  10:26:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Kil's Homepage  Send Kil an AOL message  Send Kil a Yahoo! Message Send Kil a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by ThorGoLucky

My understanding is that Canada is going to transport and sell their ill-gotten* oil, whether through a pipeline or trains, barges and trucks. So if not through the pipeline, it would be even more polluting, no?

*it takes much energy and environmental damage to get oil from shale.

The history of pipeline breaks and other mishaps puts wherever the pipeline is in danger of a spill. And that history hasn't been a good one.


Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.

Why not question something for a change?

Genetic Literacy Project
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26020 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2014 :  12:29:21   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
At least with trucks, any spill will be limited to, say, 40,000 liters per incident.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1486 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2014 :  18:11:02   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And a pipeline is a prime target for terrorists.
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie

USA
4826 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2014 :  06:54:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Valiant Dancer's Homepage Send Valiant Dancer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

At least with trucks, any spill will be limited to, say, 40,000 liters per incident.


But there has been far more volume of spills from truck accidents than with pipeline breaks. If anything, shipping by truck spreads the contamination around.

Link to Congressional Research Service

Link to Forbes article

Ultimately, we are looking at either building a pipeline or increasing train and ship traffic for a method of reducing spills. However, the oil companies would rather not pay third parties for shipping, so they are going to push pipelines and fall back to trucks.

Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils

Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26020 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2014 :  11:08:07   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting articles, Val, thanks.

Thor, I can't find anything on terrorists targeting pipelines in the U.S. I think terrorists are more interested in causing fear than in making a mess.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too.
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Boron10
Religion Moderator

USA
1266 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2014 :  14:24:47   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Boron10 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Dave W.

Thor, I can't find anything on terrorists targeting pipelines in the U.S. I think terrorists are more interested in causing fear than in making a mess.
Yes, that argument can also be used to say we shouldn't build art, national monuments, dams, skyscrapers, or nearly anything.

Another argument against Keystone is in this disingenuous article:
Simply stated, Keystone XL is a way to get Canadian oil out of the United States, not into it.
What the author chooses not to point out is that oil is a global market. A quick search of the US Energy Information Administration (EIA) website shows the following:
Gasoline is a globally traded commodity, and prices are highly correlated across global spot markets.
Among other things. Look here for the above quote, and here for an overview of oil supply and demand.

In other words, the Keystone Pipeline will probably lower global (and therefore US) gasoline prices. And, as Val pointed out, will be less potentially disruptive to the environment than any other form of oil transportation.
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf

USA
1486 Posts

Posted - 11/19/2014 :  14:54:31   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit ThorGoLucky's Homepage Send ThorGoLucky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Originally posted by Boron10

Originally posted by Dave W.

Thor, I can't find anything on terrorists targeting pipelines in the U.S. I think terrorists are more interested in causing fear than in making a mess.
Yes, that argument can also be used to say we shouldn't build art, national monuments, dams, skyscrapers, or nearly anything.

No big oil spills from art and monuments, but what Dave W. said.
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