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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2004 :  17:33:13  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
I just recieved my copy of The Demon Haunted World today from amazon, and I started reading it. I came to page 11 where when Sagan is talking about the bad parts of science (nuclear bomb, etc) and it says:

"Roughly half the scientists on Earth work at leaast part-time for the military"

Now I read this thinking it implied that these were scientists envolved in weapons research, as that is what he is talking about in this section, the negitive aspects of Science. However, thinking about it, I would like a large amount of them are researching was to protect our own troops, instead of harming others. I was wondering if anyone knew how to get the percentage of scientists working on weapons research?

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov

astropin
SFN Regular

USA
970 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2004 :  18:07:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send astropin a Private Message
I could tell you, but then I would have to....well you know

I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.

You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.

Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.

Infinitus est numerus stultorum
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 09/10/2004 :  18:59:32   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message
I don't know the answer to your question, but "for the military" is extremely vague. Any engineer working for companies which produce aircraft, vehicles, computers, or electronic systems which have government contracts would technically be working for the military. They aren't working on weapons per se, but either weapon delivery systems, troop transport, or general operations.

Other scientists might include biologists which work on military bases to assess the impacts of certain protocols or experiments on the environment, or those researching new fuel alternatives, or those involved sensitive communication satellite technology and the space program.

I mean, I really can't name a scientific field without thinking of some component which would have a military application, which is where I suspect Sagan gets that 50% figure. But I would venture to guess that very few individuals are involved in the actual nuts and bolts of building better bombs and death rays, or even defensive technologies such as body armor and camouflage.

Of course, this is SFN and you guys like citations to support assertions. Blah. I don't have any. I'm just speculating.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/10/2004 19:02:39
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2004 :  06:48:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message
Well, let's not forget that scientists "working for the military" have come up with some pretty revolutionary and world changing technology.

The integrated circiut.

The internet (started as a DARPA funded project to create a dispersed comunications network not vulnerable to a single enemy attack)

So really, working for the military isn't always the same as making bombs.....

Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Ricky
SFN Die Hard

USA
4907 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2004 :  07:28:52   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Ricky an AOL message Send Ricky a Private Message
quote:
So really, working for the military isn't always the same as making bombs.....


I would suspect a fairly small percentage of that 50% to actually be working towards weapons research. Somewhere around 5%, or maybe even less.

Why continue? Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug their superstitions to their breast.
- Isaac Asimov
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