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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
 Posted - 10/08/2006 : 19:21:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
I'll take that as a "I don't have any evidence that didn't come from the official conspiracy theory..." Thanks for being honest--that's the first step.
You can take it however you want, if it helps you sleep better at night. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2006 : 19:22:00 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by Master Yoda
The Port Authority is not a federal agency. Its full name is The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey. It's a bi-state agency.
I was wrong: "The Port Authority is jointly headed by the governors of New York and New Jersey."quote:
Thus their documents should be acceptable, right?
Only if there's some sort of arbitrary assumption, "Federal equals crooked, but State equals honest." I don't know why that should be the case, since the Feds can just as easily bribe a state employee into lying as they can their own employees. The threat of jack-booted thugs smashing in your door to feast on your childrens' livers works either way.
Only the Feds are excluded--like I clearly stated above. It has nothing to do with assumptions of being crooked or honest. But the reasons for my distinction is immaterial to following the requested rule and thus will not be discussed. If that doesn't sit well with you, then stay off the thread. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2006 : 19:38:03 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Neurosis
Is all the mathematic models (evidence?) on all of the Conspiracy debunking sites (such as popular mechanics website), as well as, the eye witness video and extra-video reports of seeing two airplanes crashing into the buildings counted?
What complies with my request is outlined and clarified in the first few posts on this thread.
quote:
The only thing (non government oriented) that can be proven is that two planes that were highjacked by islamic terrorist did crash into the building and set several floor on fire (seen on the video).
And you would be hard-pressed to support the claims that the planes were hijacked by islamic terrorists. Even the Bush administration has admitted they don't really know if the 19 suspected terrorists really did it.
quote:
All else is speculation.
Well that statement of yours is certainly speculative!
As I point out in my op, I am only interested in evidence supporting the official conspiracy theory at this time, on this thread. If you don't have anything to contribute on topic, please start your own thread to pose your other--even if related--questions; or send me an email with them and I'll answer you directly. These threads are locked after 15 pages or so--depending on the emotions of the moderator--and I want those with contributions to make to the topic to have all the space they need on one thread.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation! |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2006 : 19:40:21 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
NO! You said "non-government". That was not specific enough to mean just the Federalis. So quit patting yourself on the back.
If you want to whine about the criteria I have put and just now added to my request, start your own thread about it or write your representatives in congress.
Thanks in advance for your cooperation! |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2006 : 19:54:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
For you, Dave, use the following rule of thumb: When in doubt, just don't post it. I think that will make both our lives easier.
Well, since you are unable or unwilling to be absolutely crystal-clear and up-front about your rules, I'd have to advise anyone else who's thinking about posting something to this thread to not waste their time, since you'll just come up with some ad hoc new "rule" to use to dismiss anything offered as being "governmental" in nature, or in violation of some other aspect of whatever is in your head. If you're not willing to lay out the details of what you'll consider as evidence and what you won't, then lots of time will be wasted by people submitting stuff that you already know you won't accept. Just lay it all out beforehand, and you'll get a better signal-to-noise ratio.
Let's try it out: This photo (copyright Associated Press) clearly supports the NIST's contention that for at least one of the towers, the top tilted as it fell. Is that "evidence" or isn't it under your rules, ergo? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2006 : 20:00:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
quote:
Originally posted by ergo123
For you, Dave, use the following rule of thumb: When in doubt, just don't post it. I think that will make both our lives easier.
Well, since you are unable or unwilling to be absolutely crystal-clear and up-front about your rules, I'd have to advise anyone else who's thinking about posting something to this thread to not waste their time, since you'll just come up with some ad hoc new "rule" to use to dismiss anything offered as being "governmental" in nature, or in violation of some other aspect of whatever is in your head. If you're not willing to lay out the details of what you'll consider as evidence and what you won't, then lots of time will be wasted by people submitting stuff that you already know you won't accept. Just lay it all out beforehand, and you'll get a better signal-to-noise ratio.
Let's try it out: This photo (copyright Associated Press) clearly supports the NIST's contention that for at least one of the towers, the top tilted as it fell. Is that "evidence" or isn't it under your rules, ergo?
I'm not going to publicly toss out anything, Dave. If people take the time to post something that's great. I'll review it and use it or not. But either way, they will be thanked for their effort.
And thank you for the photo. You don't happen to have a larger version, do you? It's a beautiful shot--technically speaking, of course; not in terms of the content, which is ghastly. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
| Edited by - ergo123 on 10/08/2006 20:02:20 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2006 : 20:16:33 [Permalink]
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| Oh, you're not even going to indicate, one way or another, whether any particular piece of evidence is useful for you? You've set up an entirely one-way pipe here, then, not for discussion? Well, then, I will change my previous suggestion for others here to "go ahead and submit anything you want to. Anything." So here's something else for you, ergo. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2006 : 20:23:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W....
Well, then, I will change my previous suggestion for others here to "go ahead and submit anything you want to. Anything."
There are certainly those who would consider this to be a rather compelling piece of evidence.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2006 : 20:34:04 [Permalink]
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| I want to know why the government conspiracy is hiding the real details concerning this image. |
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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GeeMack
SFN Regular
USA
1093 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2006 : 20:43:56 [Permalink]
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Here's a link to the CTAHR Report from March, 2002, just six months after 9/11. It includes some interesting commentary near the end of the article regarding policy makers' need to weigh economic, social, and environmental considerations.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
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ergo123
BANNED
USA
810 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2006 : 21:19:09 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.
Oh, you're not even going to indicate, one way or another, whether any particular piece of evidence is useful for you? You've set up an entirely one-way pipe here, then, not for discussion? Well, then, I will change my previous suggestion for others here to "go ahead and submit anything you want to. Anything." So here's something else for you, ergo.
Gee, Dave. Thanks for the monkey. But why be such a jerk and post obviously irrelevant things? Could it be your emotions are getting the better of you? That must cause a rational guy like you a bit of internal turmoil.
Or could it be that you now realize how you have been using "the bible" (i.e., the NIST Report--i.e., the official conspiracy theory) as a source to prove the bible is the word of god (i.e., that the official conspiracy theory is to be believed)--and are so embarrassed you need to lash out at me for pointing it out?
For your own sake, I'd recommend a warm glass of milk and a cookie, then a nice long rest. |
No witty quotes. I think for myself. |
| Edited by - ergo123 on 10/08/2006 21:24:30 |
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2006 : 21:36:15 [Permalink]
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Although I doubt it matters:
THE PLANES
The widely accepted account that hijackers commandeered and crashed the four 9/11 planes is supported by reams of evidence, from cockpit recordings to forensics to the fact that crews and passengers never returned home
Hijacking
Cockpit recordings indicate the passengers on United Airlines Flight 93 teamed up to attack their hijackers, forcing down the plane near Shanksville, in southwestern Pennsylvania. There is no evidence to assert that the plane was not hijacked or that the highjackers were not the same terrorist in the plot that was later discovered by the official investigation. Oh, but you want to throw that out. Even if you do. Your still holding the bag and are still not able to show that anyone else carried out the terrorist plot.
Military alert
- On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes.
"They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the
phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public
affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal
Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called
NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37
am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to
inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for
Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes
earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines
Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York
ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had
been hijacked--the same time the plane slammed into the South
Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center,
NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth,
Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in
Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated
planes.
- All can and has been verified by phone records and I witness
accounts
The Fuel
Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."
"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.
The Collapse Mechanics
Once each tower began to collapse, the weight of all the floors above the collapsed zone bore down with pulverizing force on the highest intact floor. Unable to absorb the massive energy, that floor would fail, transmitting the forces to the floor below, allowing the collapse to progress downward through the building in a chain reaction. Engineers call the process "pancaking," and it does not require an explosion to begin.
Some Untrained eye witnesses have been quoted as saying that it looked like a demolition, however tons of trained ghost hunters proclaim that dust particle caught in a camera flash look like ghost orbs (souls) and even note smiley faces as eviden |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
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Neurosis
SFN Regular
USA
675 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2006 : 21:38:39 [Permalink]
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The links miswraped or did not nest properly so go here and scoll down to the references
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories
Does anyone see the point in this thread? |
Facts! Pssh, you can prove anything even remotely true with facts.
- Homer Simpson
[God] is an infinite nothing from nowhere with less power over our universe than the secretary of agriculture.
- Prof. Frink
Lisa: Yes, but wouldn't you rather know the truth than to delude yourself for happiness?
Marge: Well... um.... [goes outside to jump on tampoline with Homer.] |
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Just to be clear...
Topic Locked
