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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2007 :  12:28:47  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
... fired for using Ken Ham's lecture material...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/EDUCATION/03/20/teacherfired.ap.ap/index.html

What is striking to me is how CNN has titled this story.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth

Vegeta
Skeptic Friend

United Kingdom
238 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2007 :  13:26:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Vegeta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd be interested to hear the details on exactly what he taught. I don't see the reference to Ken Ham.

What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?

"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee
Edited by - Vegeta on 03/20/2007 13:55:36
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2007 :  16:21:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love how he claims he was fired just for teaching "critical thinking." Hey, we should have trademarked that term!

The reactions and objections of the parents are just wonderful, showing they fully understand that this numbnuts was preventing a biology education, rather than teaching one. Creationism is being popularly marginalized at last!




Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/20/2007 16:25:14
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Randy
SFN Regular

USA
1990 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2007 :  16:27:42   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Randy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That was a nice slam-dunk.
(Please, 'teach'...open your mind on the way out the door)

"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."

"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend

United Kingdom
238 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2007 :  16:34:27   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Vegeta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, somehow these ID nuts have made 'critical thinking' their catchphrase. As if by criticising evolution they have some kind of monopoly on critical thought.

What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?

"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard

USA
4574 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2007 :  16:53:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send H. Humbert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If the teacher's goal was to promote critical thinking, then his release should be taken as evidence that his goal was achieved. Somehow I'm inclined to think that he wasn't entirely honest about his goals, however.


"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman

"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie
Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/20/2007 16:54:46
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2007 :  19:53:17   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
vegeta said:
quote:
I don't see the reference to Ken Ham.



If you are familiar with Ham's lectures, you'd recognize the content.

The article doesn't go into much detail, but the bits they give are right out of a Ham or Dr Dino(convicted felon, tm) lecture.

quote:
During his eight days as a part-time high school biology teacher, Kris Helphinstine included Biblical references in material he provided to students and gave a PowerPoint presentation that made links between evolution, Nazi Germany and Planned Parenthood.



That material is directly from Ham and Hovind lectures. They always make multiple attempts to link evolution and the nazis.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Paulos23
Skeptic Friend

USA
446 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2007 :  21:41:18   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Paulos23's Homepage Send Paulos23 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is a more detailed news item on it.

http://www.nuggetnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=5&ArticleID=12833

You can go wrong by being too skeptical as readily as by being too trusting. -- Robert A. Heinlein

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. -- Aldous Huxley
Edited by - Paulos23 on 03/20/2007 21:42:14
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard

USA
3834 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  02:29:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send beskeptigal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paulos23

Here is a more detailed news item on it.

http://www.nuggetnews.com/main.asp?SectionID=5&SubSectionID=5&ArticleID=12833

I posted the following at Nugget News, I think there is a mod reader before it shows up on the site. Hopefully they won't truncate it.

[I'd suggest those of you who have been misled that there are viable alternatives to the theory of evolution which the scientific community conspires to suppress take the time to review the court transcripts from the Kitzmiller v Dover Area School District trial. The links to all transcripts can be found on Wikipedia,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District_trial_documents

If you care to educate yourself about the issues, what you will find is the scientific community has no objection to including any scientific theory which is supported by scientific evidence. The religious community has done it's best to present alternatives to evolution and despite a massive effort, they simply were unable to support their claims with real evidence. In addition, the advances in genetic science over the last couple decades has added impenetrable strength to the evidence supporting the theory of evolution. Genetic science has filled in the supposed gaps which evolution deniers are still using as arguments against evolution. Those arguments are 20 or more years out of date. We have the genetic history of life on this planet now and evolution is it.

Science has no anti-religion bias as is often claimed when challenges to the theory of evolution fail. It is the evidence that fails to be convincing, not that any evidence is being excluded from consideration. Promoters of ID who do have a religious agenda are very good at trying to make the argument about fairness and inclusion of alternative theories in science classes. But the scientific community welcomes alternative theories WHEN they are supported by viable evidence. Since the ID promoters cannot support their claims with actual evidence, they go about trying to change the argument to one of including alternative theories rather than arguing their case on the evidence.

Just who is this science conspiracy anyway? There are many Christians who are also scientists. Why would they be in on this conspiracy to suppress viable alternatives to evolution? Why are there only a handful of scientists on the fringe supporting Intelligent Design? Do you think becoming a scientists means becoming an atheist?

Science does welcome alternative theories. There simply are no valid alternative theories to evolution. There is a concerted effort to convince people there are alternatives, and it fools a lot of people who are not well versed in biology. It doesn't fool the scientists and that's why ID is not included in public school science classrooms.

And as a side note, modern medical research is blooming because of the advances in genetic science which is again, entirely based on the theory of evolution. And I'm not talking about genetic modifications. I'm talking about the genetic science that let us find the SARS virus in months rather than the years it took to find HIV. And we've been able to monitor the bird flu so we should be able to detect genetic changes that provide advance warning and maybe even give us enough time to produce vaccine stockplies if a pandemic emerges. I'm talking about the advances in cancer research and in understanding a whole host of diseases. And the latest, which does involve manipulating genes, is the development of a mosquito that doesn't transmit malaria.

Kids need to learn about evolution and the religious opponents need to recognize you cannot wish away the evidence at think tanks like the Discovery Institute. You cannot force science to ignore the evidence in favor of a Biblical interpretation of the world. You can lock up Galileo, but you can't stop other people looking through their own telescopes. Eventually, it's the Biblical interpretation that has to change. The evidence can't.]
Edited by - beskeptigal on 03/21/2007 02:29:57
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  04:17:20   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great letter, Be! Thanks for writing that!


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard

USA
14408 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  07:13:00   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send filthy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bah! ID is dead; we're just waiting for it's pathetic corpse to finally fall into the hole. This guy is just tossing another wilted bouquet to clutter up the ground by the headstone. If there was any justice, he'd be busted for littering.




"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)

"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres


"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude

Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,

and Crypto-Communist!

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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  14:25:30   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by filthy

Bah! ID is dead; we're just waiting for it's pathetic corpse to finally fall into the hole.

Scientifically, ID was of course never even alive. But since the motivation for pushing for ID to be taught in schools is more or less purely political and religious I'm afraid that as long as people want to have their version of religion taught, there will be ID (or at least for as long as they are not allowed to expicitly have their religion presented as an alternative to science).

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  15:29:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing I find interesting is that a member of the same Creationist movement that piously claims only to be wanting to have an equal presentation of their "science" did, when given the opportunity, actually teach Creationism for nine out of the ten days given to the subject:
quote:
That's not how some parents of students in the class see it. One parent, John Rahm, said his daughter reported that only "one day of 10" was devoted to the study of evolution, with the rest devoted to devoted to "Intelligent Design" materials.

Of course, I realize that extrapolating from this what they would to if they were in control is reaching on my part. In reality, they would doubtless teach "Creation science" for ten of the ten days.

Edited to add: I think the Creationists, and especially those influenced by the pernicious designs of DI's Phillip Johnson (creator of the Wedge Strategy), like to pretend in public to hold a sort of factual relativism about science, while lurking under the surface is a Biblical inerrancy that would have the force of law if they were in power. It's fundamentally dishonest.



Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/21/2007 17:13:19
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend

United Kingdom
238 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  16:22:59   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Vegeta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm curious as to what an ID lesson consists of. I thought it was mostly based on trying to de-bunk evolution

What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?

"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee
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Dude
SFN Die Hard

USA
6891 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  16:45:51   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Dude a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
I thought it was mostly based on trying to de-bunk evolution


Exactly.

They probably spent a couple days on crap like irreducable complexity, and more time on how evolution is evil because a nazi once misquoted Darwin.


Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson

"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin

Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth
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Hawks
SFN Regular

Canada
1383 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2007 :  16:58:24   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Hawks's Homepage Send Hawks a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dude
..evolution is evil because a nazi once misquoted Darwin.

Most people would propbably think that this is an "evolutionist" mischaracterizing ID, so let me just quote what William Dembski said yesterday on his blog (21st March at uncommondescent):
quote:
Thus, this effort would also kick-off a comparison of what good has been brought to the world by these two people Darwin vs. Wilberforce. Nazi Eugenics vs. the abolition of slavery.

Someone with more than half of a brain will read Dembski's words for the crap they are. Some don't.

METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden!
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