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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
 Posted - 06/04/2007 : 20:26:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
This is the point Dave, if a license holds no benefit or protection what is the point of paying the state for the license? |
Wow, how short-sighted and naive.
Your driver's license confers benefits to everyone who isn't you. Allow me to speak on behalf of all of them to say, "thank you for your cooperation."
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Really, how? What benefit is derived from me passing the drivers test? Do you really believe that those state tests prevent poor drivers from driving?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 20:29:17 [Permalink]
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| This is the point Dave, if a license holds no benefit or protection what is the point of paying the state for the license? |
Boy, we're really getting off topic. But while we're on this tangent, I'd like to say that I'm very glad my friend who is an alcoholic lost his drivers' license for drunk driving, and was ordered by the state to get treatment. That same friend is currently in AA - now of his own choice - in graduate school, and runs his own very lucrative business in the summers. He is quite glad that the law stopped his reckless behavior and woke him up to the self-destructive reality of his situation. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 20:30:44 [Permalink]
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| Do you really believe that those state tests prevent poor drivers from driving? |
I don't. I think the standards should be much higher. My husband got a license and he has extremely poor depth perception. But they don't test for depth perception. So now his wife just don't let him drive. But before me, he did drive. See, Jerome, lack of a law forbidding him to drive didn't stop him from driving irresponsibly. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 20:41:13 [Permalink]
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Marfknox, there have been many societies that embraced homosexuality and encouraged it such as Sparta, and Rome.
Common law in terms of right of possession; not the right of outsiders (biological family) to interfere with the property of a household based on death of a member of the household.
Your examples to my questions are anecdotal, and you knew that.
We did not come up with these laws. Those with ambition for political power came up with these laws, and made them sound reasonable so as to get "us" to agree.
Utopia does not exist and it never will. The laws are designed by people with ambition to benefit their "tribe" with the neglect of other "tribes".
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26034 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 20:43:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Really, how? What benefit is derived from me passing the drivers test? Do you really believe that those state tests prevent poor drivers from driving? |
And it seems you'd rather state your case in all-or-nothing terms, instead of as a proper statistical argument. Or do you deny that the tests prevent even a single bad driver from being on the roads? I'm sure the pass/fail ratios, being matters of public record, are easily available. And it seems you'd also, as noted by marf, ignore the consequences of losing one's license, even without alcohol in the picture.
But I know a guy who lost his license due to drinking, too. This guy prefers drinking so much that he hasn't tried to get his license back, and he also hasn't gotten behind the wheel again. All he caused was property damage before - and mostly his own property at that - but to anyone who knew him, "vehicular manslaughter" seemed to be on the agenda. It's a good thing he lost his license. Everyone else gets to live, on average, a few more seconds.
Ya know, I liked it so much better when Libertarians just stuck to the "you won't pay income taxes anymore!" script. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26034 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 20:44:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Common law in terms of right of possession; not the right of outsiders (biological family) to interfere with the property of a household based on death of a member of the household. |
Who is empowered to enforce such rights? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 20:45:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
| This is the point Dave, if a license holds no benefit or protection what is the point of paying the state for the license? |
Boy, we're really getting off topic. But while we're on this tangent, I'd like to say that I'm very glad my friend who is an alcoholic lost his drivers' license for drunk driving, and was ordered by the state to get treatment. That same friend is currently in AA - now of his own choice - in graduate school, and runs his own very lucrative business in the summers. He is quite glad that the law stopped his reckless behavior and woke him up to the self-destructive reality of his situation.
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Do all drunks stop driving because they lost their license to drive?
The law in D.C. is any alcohol, which means a glass of wine with dinner at a restaurant will get you locked up. Does that help or hurt society?
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 20:50:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
| Do you really believe that those state tests prevent poor drivers from driving? |
I don't. I think the standards should be much higher. My husband got a license and he has extremely poor depth perception. But they don't test for depth perception. So now his wife just don't let him drive. But before me, he did drive. See, Jerome, lack of a law forbidding him to drive didn't stop him from driving irresponsibly.
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This is my point, if his actions harm another than he should be punished; not before. You, as a reasonable family, made a reasonable decision. I believe most people most times make reasonable decisions outside of; as you stated, ineffectual state regulation.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 20:54:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Common law in terms of right of possession; not the right of outsiders (biological family) to interfere with the property of a household based on death of a member of the household. |
Who is empowered to enforce such rights?
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The right of possession. If possession is gained without malice, fraud, or harm, society (i.e. the law) has no right to intervene.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26034 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 21:03:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
The right of possession. If possession is gained without malice, fraud, or harm, society (i.e. the law) has no right to intervene. |
So I asked who is empowered to enfore that right, and you reply by telling me what that right is. Why is it you won't answer questions put to you? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26034 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 21:13:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
Do all drunks stop driving because they lost their license to drive? |
Yes, there's that all-or-nothing attitude that's so ultimately cynically dogmatic!  | The law in D.C. is any alcohol, which means a glass of wine with dinner at a restaurant will get you locked up. |
That is blatantly false.| Does that help or hurt society? |
Your misrepresentations of the law certainly don't help your arguments. But the DUI laws in D.C. (the real ones) help society by mitigating loss of life and property. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 21:14:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
The right of possession. If possession is gained without malice, fraud, or harm, society (i.e. the law) has no right to intervene. |
So I asked who is empowered to enfore that right, and you reply by telling me what that right is. Why is it you won't answer questions put to you?
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The state would enforce the right of possession. As the state would enforce encroachment on any persons life or property.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Galit78
New Member
USA
1 Post |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 21:19:13 [Permalink]
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| I guess some people aren't ready for a change yet. Things should and will change. It's the same like things that used to be illegal in the past and now are legal. Perception. I think that same sex people should get married and have kids. |
Galit G. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26034 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 21:33:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
The state would enforce the right of possession. As the state would enforce encroachment on any persons life or property. |
And how is the inheritance situation marf described any different from someone fraudulently getting the state to enforce the right of possession where it should not do so? Would there be a hotline number for right-of-possession enforcement, or would 911 and the courts suffice? Can I tell the state ahead of time who should get my possessions when I die? Can I tell the state I got married so that my rights of possession will automatically confer to my spouse, as they should, in case of my death or disability? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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JEROME DA GNOME
BANNED
2418 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 21:42:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by JEROME DA GNOME
The state would enforce the right of possession. As the state would enforce encroachment on any persons life or property. |
And how is the inheritance situation marf described any different from someone fraudulently getting the state to enforce the right of possession where it should not do so? Would there be a hotline number for right-of-possession enforcement, or would 911 and the courts suffice? Can I tell the state ahead of time who should get my possessions when I die? Can I tell the state I got married so that my rights of possession will automatically confer to my spouse, as they should, in case of my death or disability?
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If I have possession before and after the death of my housemate, what right (outside of law) would anyone else have claim? If one chooses to make a will and leave some or all possessions to anyone not the member of the household, I see nothing wrong with that. The problems occur when those outside of the household lay legal claim to the possession within the household.
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What a man believes upon grossly insufficient evidence is an index into his desires -- desires of which he himself is often unconscious. If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell |
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Same-sex Marriage
Topic Locked
