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 Did the Red Sea part? No evidence, says...
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2998 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2007 :  08:31:31  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Link

quote:
That prompted a reporter to ask about the Exodus, and if the new evidence was linked in any way to the story of Passover. The archaeological discoveries roughly coincided with the timing of the Israelites' biblical flight from Egypt and the 40 years of wandering the desert in search of the Promised Land.

“Really, it's a myth,” Dr. Hawass said of the story of the Exodus, as he stood at the foot of a wall built during what is called the New Kingdom.


And my favorite quote from the article:

quote:
“If they get upset, I don't care,” Dr. Hawass said. “This is my career as an archaeologist. I should tell them the truth. If the people are upset, that is not my problem.”



by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.

marfknox
SFN Die Hard

USA
3739 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2007 :  08:39:41   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit marfknox's Homepage  Send marfknox an AOL message Send marfknox a Private Message  Reply with Quote
From the article:
quote:
“A pharaoh drowned and a whole army was killed,” he said recounting the portion of the story that holds that God parted the Red Sea to allow the Israelites to escape, then closed the waters on the pursuing army.

“This is a crisis for Egypt, and Egyptians do not document their crises.”
It's funny the different mindsets... as I read this I paused after the first sentence and thought to myself Yeah, you'd think there'd be some evidence of that! I mean, I get that Egyptians did not document defeats and such, but the whole reason we know they didn't is because we have found evidence of such cover-ups and editing. If they were really good at erasing parts of history, we wouldn't know it.

"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong

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Edited by - marfknox on 04/03/2007 08:40:13
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend

United Kingdom
238 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2007 :  08:51:12   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Vegeta a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Still other investigators argue that the book of Exodus places the miracle of the Sea not at the Red Sea but further north near the Bitter Lakes at the "Sea of Reeds" (this is the precise translation of the Hebrew Yam Suph), a site that in antiquity had large areas of marshland and one or more natural land fords just below the water line that could have become dry ground under heavy northwest winds


http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-955127/Parting-seas-magic-stars-and.html

I think thats from one of those 'can science explain bible stories' things which inevitably leads to a series of stretches or remarkable coincidences. I saw a docu once where they came up with a plausable theory for all the plagues that struck Egypt, (including the death of the first born son). But really its so unlikely all those things happened on the scale that is claimed in the Bible. There is no NEED to attempt to explain things for which there aren't even reliable accounts.

What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?

"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist

USA
4955 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2007 :  11:14:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Cuneiformist a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Note also that the proper translation of the Hebrew is 'Sea of Reeds', though that's from memory; I don't have it in front of me...
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2998 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2007 :  12:54:23   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

Note also that the proper translation of the Hebrew is 'Sea of Reeds', though that's from memory; I don't have it in front of me...



Yes, that is correct. It is mentioned in the article.

Many words are not translated correctly for "some reason" in the bible. For example, one word that was translated as homosexual (in a negative context) actually should be "temple prostitute." If the Bible were translated correctly, present-day christians would have a lot of "soul searching" to do...

by Filthy
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2007 :  13:18:11   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd be far more interested in learning more about the Thera eruption and its effects upon the peoples of the Eastern Mediterranean region. That event was real, and must have had cataclysmic effects upon coastal civilizations.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9687 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2007 :  14:32:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by pleco
Many words are not translated correctly for "some reason" in the bible. For example, one word that was translated as homosexual (in a negative context) actually should be "temple prostitute." If the Bible were translated correctly, present-day christians would have a lot of "soul searching" to do...

Where in the Bible is that passage?
I'd like to see it in context.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2998 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2007 :  14:39:39   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here is some info : http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/sexorient/bible-gay.html

Verses here: http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/sexorient/hom_bibh.htm

I'll see if I can dig up some more...

EDIT: I think the above info was taken from here:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibi.htm#cau

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
Edited by - pleco on 04/03/2007 14:45:34
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Baza
New Member

United Kingdom
47 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2007 :  15:37:38   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Baza a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Been reading the following book. Its looking at how archeological evidence supports or not the bible stories.

The Bible Unearthed: Archaeology's New Vision of Ancient Israel and Origin of Sacred Texts


http://www.ebooks.com/ebooks/book_display.asp?IID=152562

Baza
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend

Sweden
9687 Posts

Posted - 04/03/2007 :  16:28:40   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Send Dr. Mabuse an ICQ Message Send Dr. Mabuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the links.

Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3

"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse

Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder.
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  04:51:33   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cuneiformist

Note also that the proper translation of the Hebrew is 'Sea of Reeds', though that's from memory; I don't have it in front of me...



Correctamondo..... And it is a difirent sea then the Red Sea......

I wish I had the info in front of me too....

Peace
Joe
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  04:57:28   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by HalfMooner

I'd be far more interested in learning more about the Thera eruption and its effects upon the peoples of the Eastern Mediterranean region. That event was real, and must have had cataclysmic effects upon coastal civilizations.





I am very rusty on this, and may have the wrong eruption, but.....

Boom, lots and lots of ash.......

Lots and lots of darkness around the world.... Lots of "No sun for many days" myths.

Ash settles on poles...... Instead of white ice reflecting heat, darker ice absorbs it.... Melts lots and lots..... Global sea levels rise...... "flood myths" from all around the globe.

In one Atlantis report/book/documentary I read/watched, the South Americans were surprised by the Spanish, and commented on them surviving the event......

That is what I seem to remember from 25 years ago...... Haven't looked at it much since..... A bit rusty.

Peace
Joe
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Dave W.
Info Junkie

USA
26020 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  09:03:54   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit Dave W.'s Homepage Send Dave W. a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's this:
One interesting possibility for the effects of Thera's eruption is the origin of the story of the ten plagues to which Egypt was subjected, as proposed by historian J.G. Bennett Jr. According to the Bible, Egypt was beset by such misfortunes as the transforming of their water supply to blood, the infestations of frogs, gnats, and flies, darkness, and violent hail. These effects are compatible with the catastrophic eruption of a volcano in different ways. While the "blood" may have been red tide which is poisonous to human beings, the frogs could have been displaced by the eruption, and their eventual death would have given rise to large numbers of scavenging insects. The darkness could have been the resulting volcanic winter, and the hail the large chunks of ejecta spewn from the volcano. The tsunami that resulted from the Thera eruption is also speculated to have caused the parting of the sea that allowed the Israelites, under Moses, safe passage of the Red Sea, possibly devastating the Egyptian army with the returning wave. Exodus mentions that the Israelites were guided by a "pillar of smoke" during the day and a "pillar of fire" at night, which many scholars have speculated could be references to volcanic activity.

- Minoan eruption
The article then goes on to briefly discuss Atlantis.

- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
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Original_Intent
SFN Regular

USA
609 Posts

Posted - 04/05/2007 :  19:52:50   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send Original_Intent a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cool...
Thanks....

Joe
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HalfMooner
Dingaling

Philippines
15831 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  05:14:03   [Permalink]  Show Profile Send HalfMooner a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's a little of my own speculation. I admit to merely playing a game with this, and assign it no particular validity, particularly since it would require such perfect timing.

Suppose the Isaelites were the "Hyksos," a Semitic, semi-nomadic sheep-herding people from Canaan, who had settled, invaded (or had been settled by the Egyptians, perhaps as cheap labor) in the north-east portion of the Nile delta. Perhaps for religious reasons, they, or some of them, decided to return to Canaan. So they set out along the Mediterranean shore for the rather short trip. But they didn't have the Pharaoh's permission, and he gives chase. They come to a very narrow and shallow salt-water inlet or lagoon, a "sea of reeds" or "sea of seaweed" (either is a translation of the Hebrew Yam Suph; "Red Sea" is a misnomer). The lagoon is connected to the Mediterranean. They can't get around its southern end, because the Egyptian army is almost upon them. But just about that time, the tsunami from the Minoan eruption hits the Eastern Mediterranean shoreline. And what normally happens first when a tsumani hits? The tide goes out, suddenly, as though someone pulled the plug on the ocean bottom. The Hebrews see this as an act of their god(s), and run across the suddenly-drained channel. But as the Egyptian army is crossing the dry channel, the first huge wave hits.

Okay, that is possible, but would take some remarkable coincidental timing. But how about this?: Suppose that Hyksos/Canaanites/Hebrews were living in both lower Egypt and Canaan for a long time. There must have almost always been Hebrews traveling back and forth between Egypt and Canaan, trading, visiting relatives, or on pilgrimages to famous temples. One such party of travelers may easily have been able to cross a lagoon after it mysteriously emptied of water. Seeing the sea rush back in right afterward must have been an amazing sight. That must have been quite a tale to tell! Such a tale could easily later be polished up with nice added details like a pursuing army and a drowned pharaoh. It could be conflated with a perhaps real story of a larger separate exodus from Egypt of Hebrews who had decided that they didn't want to work on Maggie's farm no more.


Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive.
Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/06/2007 05:17:19
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pleco
SFN Addict

USA
2998 Posts

Posted - 04/06/2007 :  07:01:36   [Permalink]  Show Profile  Visit pleco's Homepage Send pleco a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But wouldn't the simplest explanation be that God Did It?

I kid, I kid...

by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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