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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 04/24/2007 : 05:34:32
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The time is here.
"In the past couple of months, economic growth and related coal consumption has grown at such an unexpected rate," Birol was quoted as saying. China's rising emissions will effectively cancel out attempts by other countries to reduce their own, he said.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 07:00:01 [Permalink]
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Pretty neat - a nation with a population of 1.3 Billion is just now surpassing a nation of 298 million!
Well, once the world gets China to undertake some green initiatives, then the US will too. And if China doesn't, then there's no reason for the US or anyone else to do so.
China will lead the way! |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 04/24/2007 07:02:45 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 04/24/2007 : 07:48:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
quote:
Pretty neat - a nation with a population of 1.3 Billion is just now surpassing a nation of 298 million!
Just now? They were not predicted to pass us until 2010 so they are ahead of schedule. Just watch as they build 544 new coal fired power plants at the rate of one per week.
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Well, once the world gets China to undertake some green initiatives,
It appears they are not interested in green initiatives at this point.
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then the US will too.
What's Al Gore been doing this whole time then?
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And if China doesn't, then there's no reason for the US or anyone else to do so.
Boy, and Dave W. said that I had a fatalistic attitude.
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China will lead the way!
In automobile and CO2 manufacturing.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 07:51:49 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
What's Al Gore been doing this whole time then?
Being ignored by people like you, remember, Bill? Or is Al Gore to blame for both spreading baselss hysteria and also failing to adequately convince ideologues like you to take preventive measures?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 04/24/2007 07:52:41 |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 08:04:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
It appears they are not interested in green initiatives at this point.
At least they signed and ratified Kyoto, if that means anything. (I will use my psychic powers to predict a response here...)
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What's Al Gore been doing this whole time then?
What makes you think I give a rat's ass about Al Gore, your favorite red herring?
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Boy, and Dave W. said that I had a fatalistic attitude.
I guess you missed the tongue-in-cheek.
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In automobile and CO2 manufacturing.
And a lot more too.
The point is that while you scream "Look at China! They aren't playing nice!", you distract from what the US should be doing to keep its own back yard clean.
Should not the US, being the current superpower, lead by example in a positive way? We used too... |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26021 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 08:06:01 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
Boy, and Dave W. said that I had a fatalistic attitude.
Get over yourself, Bill. I said you can choose a fatalistic attitude, and you seemed to not have done so. Good for you. If you want to accuse others of having such an attitude (while missing their points, it seems), you can leave me out of it. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 08:47:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
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At least they signed and ratified Kyoto Protocol>, if that means anything. (I will use my psychic powers to predict a response here...)
I would answer but you already know what I am going to say.
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I guess you missed the tongue-in-cheek.
And so did you.
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The point is that while you scream "Look at China! They aren't playing nice!",
I said look at the whole non-industrialized world. And then I said there seems to be plenty of fossil fuels to fill in the void of having no practical green energy source yet for when all of these nations start becoming thirsty for more power. China and India were my prime examples.
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you distract from what the US should be doing to keep its own back yard clean.
Just by pointing out that China has passed the US in CO2 manufacturing? Those folks must be easily distracted.
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Should not the US, being the current superpower, lead by example in a positive way?
Yes, but at this point I don't care who comes up with that practical green energy source as long as the do it pretty soon. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 09:00:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
And so did you.
Yep, sure did.
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I said look at the whole non-industrialized world. And then I said there seems to be plenty of fossil fuels to fill in the void of having no practical green energy source yet for when all of these nations start becoming thirsty for more power. China and India were my prime examples.
And why are there no practical green energy sources? In order to fill the gap, who is going to push to develop this?
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Just by pointing out that China has passed the US in CO2 manufacturing? Those folks must be easily distracted.
Damn straight.
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Yes, but at this point I don't care who comes up with that practical green energy source as long as the do it pretty soon.
And that we both can agree on, and I would like to think that we would btoh agree that the US should be the one to do it, in order to:
a) keep what is left of our science and technology advantage
b) keep control of the technology and IP rights
c) use it as political leverage
d) make money off of it
(this list is ordered in my preferences, YMMV)
So, by using the red-herring of Al Gore(tm), you are, in effect, working against what you say you want.
Whether you like Al Gore (and the associated activists) or not (and I don't particularly), they are performing a valuable service in getting the public's awareness of green issues aroused. Because the people in power (both sides, but the republicans more so) do not care (or care to work against). |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 10:16:16 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by pleco
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And why are there no practical green energy sources?
I am sure many reasons can be given.
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In order to fill the gap, who is going to push to develop this?
Whoever wants it the most would be my guess.
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And that we both can agree on, and I would like to think that we would btoh agree that the US should be the one to do it, in order to:
a) keep what is left of our science and technology advantage
b) keep control of the technology and IP rights
c) use it as political leverage
d) make money off of it
(this list is ordered in my preferences, YMMV)
I am down with that.
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So, by using the red-herring of Al Gore(tm), you are, in effect, working against what you say you want.
My only point on Al is that he is a divider rather then a uniter. And right now we need to be united
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 11:31:17 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
Whoever wants it the most would be my guess.
The problem is here is that no one does - because the powers that be are too much in the pocket of Big Oil. So something active must be done to break this.
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My only point on Al is that he is a divider rather then a uniter. And right now we need to be united
How is a Southern Baptist, Born-Again Creationist a divider on this issue? He is just going along with the mainstream science. It seems the dividers are on the other side, but that's just my opinion. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 13:14:42 [Permalink]
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Bill talking out of his ass once again, said:
quote:
It appears they (china) are not interested in green initiatives at this point.
Hrrmm... well, explain why the Chinese have funded wind power technology research Bill.
Explain why they ratified the Kyoto protocol Bill.
Explain why government official in China, the equivalent to cabinet level in the US, actively seek the advice of US construction experts on sustainable (green) construction methods, Bill.
Explain why, Bill, the Chinese government is apparently acutely aware of the environmental impact they are having, and seem to be interested in doing something about it.
So get off of Al Gore's ass, and stop making shit up about China. Your ignorance and willingness to slander Al Gore add nothing to the conversation except to demonstrate that you are incapable of sustaining a rational discussion.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 04/24/2007 : 13:43:12 [Permalink]
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 17:02:47 [Permalink]
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| Also it should be said that rightly or wrongly with their methods, China is one of the only countries (admittedly if anyone needed it, they did) to actively attempt to control their overpopulation problem. Too many people is an often overlooked but obvious cause of environmental problems |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2007 : 17:24:05 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Bill scott
In automobile and CO2 manufacturing.
Would this be a good time to point out that Toyota is a Japanese company, not Chinese? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9687 Posts |
 Posted - 04/24/2007 : 18:14:53 [Permalink]
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Bill, instead of just whining about China Coal-plants and Al Gore...
What do you propose you/we do instead of just sitting on your ass compounding to the problem?
The old saying is still true: If you're not part of the sollution, then you're part of the problem.
What are YOU doing Bill, to stop China and India from building more coal plants? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2007 : 04:18:44 [Permalink]
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| beating drums and getting high? |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
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China Will Pass U.S. As Polluter This Year!
