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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 05/05/2007 : 06:11:11
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Deniers of global warming have long criticized the reliance by climatologists on computer modeling in their predictions of rapid melting of earth's polar ice caps.
The deniers were right.
It turns out that the computer models were way off: The ice is melting much faster than the models had predicted:quote:
Arctic melt worse than predictions
(CNN) -- Arctic sea ice is melting at a rate far quicker than predicted by climate change computer models and could disappear completely before the middle of the century, scientists have warned.
The study, published in the latest edition of the journal Geophysical Research Letters, found that the actual rate at which summer sea ice had shrunk per decade during the past 50 years was more than three times faster than an average of 18 of the most highly regarded climate simulations.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
Edited by - HalfMooner on 05/05/2007 06:12:24
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2007 : 09:56:56 [Permalink]
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Well, since China and India are polluting like crazy, and we can't stop them, we may as well just ignore it.
Just open up a polar bear hunting season and get their extinction over with ASAP also.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2007 : 12:54:40 [Permalink]
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Are you channeling Bill now, Dude? I didn't know that worked with living people.
I think it's interesting that the scientists who set up those many climate models, instead of being in on some kind of conspiracy to invent or overstate global warming, now appear to have instead been quite conservative in plugging in their data. No doubt concerned not to appear to be alarmists. If several factors use cautious data, rather than the most likely data, the results of the final simulation run can be far off from reality, without any intention of skewing the results
The model results versus the "real world" results puts the lie to the slander that climatologists are distorting their findings out of some kind of hatred for capitalism, God, or modern industrial society.
This also points to a truism: The only really accurate climate model is the earth itself, literally the "real world." But now scientists can go back to their models and try to see what went wrong with them, and tune them to make them more accurate.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2007 : 13:25:08 [Permalink]
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At least we have a president acting as a opiate for the masses -- trying his best keeping people calm, disconnected (if one ignores the problem, maybe it'll go away type deal).
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2007 : 13:37:25 [Permalink]
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| This is what science is about (and what deniers and other weird-fringe-yet-in-the-White-House people don't get.) Science is falsifiable and always refining and retesting itself. Dogma on the other hand says "prove me wrong" and sits in its Earth-is-6000-years-old dogmatic poop. |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2007 : 14:45:39 [Permalink]
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quote:
Are you channeling Bill now, Dude?
That was, ummm, sarcasm.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 05:07:02 [Permalink]
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| Seriously I think only the impending 'Santa's Workshop' relocation project will get everyone really on board... Strange how the media have missed that one. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2007 : 15:48:57 [Permalink]
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Perhaps the fat man could relocate to Santaland, in North Pole, Alaska. In 1952 or so, my family lived briefly in Fairbanks, Alaska, my Dad doing construction work at the then Ladd Air Force Base.
Fairbanks was a crazy Cold War boom town, and a hoot for a kid: There were sandbagged anti-aircraft gun emplacements on street corners, half-tracks driving the streets, a crumbling one-room log cabin next to the the Polaris Building, the largest office building in town. A line of telephone poles actually ran IN the main street, rather than next to it. Most people seemed to expect a Soviet invasion at any moment. Now and then, the military would round up all the civilians and give them vaccinations.
Anyway, some genius decided that this small town needed a theme park a convenient fifty-odd gravel-paved miles outside of town. Santaland was the result: A huge "Santaland" sign to drive under, a few buildings gaudily painted red-and-white (plenty of candy-striping!) and about four bored reindeer (or maybe tame caribou?). No rides, only a tiny concession store in the owner's cabin. Nobody even dressed up as Santa or an Elf. Go figure.
Edit: I've Googled Santaland a bit, and discovered that both North Pole and Santaland still exist. 13 miles outside of Fairbanks, not 50 (it only seemed that far, on gravel.) Sadly, however, Santaland is now merely an RV park.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 05/07/2007 16:18:29 |
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 04:07:17 [Permalink]
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| I propose to use a series of rockets mounted upside down onto the earth's surface, at a certain time each day these rockets will fire, slowly but surely changing the earth's orbit to move the earth further away from the sun. This gradual change in temperature would be controlable and even reversable simply by firing the rockets at night time instead. |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
| Edited by - Vegeta on 05/08/2007 04:08:09 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26020 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 09:06:25 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Vegeta
I propose to use a series of rockets mounted upside down onto the earth's surface, at a certain time each day these rockets will fire, slowly but surely changing the earth's orbit to move the earth further away from the sun. This gradual change in temperature would be controlable and even reversable simply by firing the rockets at night time instead.
Why didn't you vote for that in the poll? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Vegeta
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
238 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 15:45:42 [Permalink]
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| i only just thought of it! |
What are you looking at? Haven't you ever seen a pink shirt before?
"I was asked if I would do a similar sketch but focusing on the shortcomings of Islam rather than Christianity. I said, 'No, no I wouldn't. I may be an atheist but I'm not stupid.'" - Steward Lee |
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JohnOAS
SFN Regular
Australia
800 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2007 : 19:01:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Originally posted by Vegeta
I propose to use a series of rockets mounted upside down onto the earth's surface, at a certain time each day these rockets will fire, slowly but surely changing the earth's orbit to move the earth further away from the sun. This gradual change in temperature would be controlable and even reversable simply by firing the rockets at night time instead.
Better yet, rather than using polluting rockets, why don't we just make gigantic catapults with which we can launch unwanted detritus/politicians directly at the sun(*). Apart from the initial momentum transfer moving us further from the sun, it has the added bonus of reducing the net mass of the earth so that future catapultings have an even greater effect.
Apologies to Dave for posting this here. 
* Edited to add: We could give one of them a radio, and they could let us know when/if they bounce off it's solid surface. |
John's just this guy, you know. |
| Edited by - JohnOAS on 05/08/2007 19:03:43 |
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beskeptigal
SFN Die Hard
USA
3834 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2007 : 00:42:55 [Permalink]
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According to Richard leaky, it's 5-10 years before the Kilimanjaro 12,000 yr old glaciers are gone. And he leans toward 5 years. Fascinating talk I went to tonight. He noted all the wildlife preserves are like islands. When the climate changes, the wildlife cannot migrate to compensate. He expects 80% loss of species if we don't change things now.
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Those useless global warming simulations!
